quote:Originally posted by karamazoune: Well, Wacky Nephews & TwoGuyswithaHat, impressive! Most impressive.
Even a québecois would not have responded so well (though, it was not an exam... I would have had problems answering my own questions). But now you've destroyed my point entirely, I will have to rethink my life now, thank you!
And I even forgot The Arcade Fire, one of my favourites from the last year.
But I think we have answered a much bigger question here. Both sides are quite fond of pointing out that the other doesn't "get" them. Yet neither side is willing to talk to the other to find out if it's true. Some how the lines of communication have become "You hate us so we want to leave!" "You hate us so we want you to leave but please leave your land!" When they should be "Here's what we would like and why" and "Here's why we think [u]this[/u] is a better option" The latter is a much more constructive way of approaching the issue.
But that's just me blabbering on...
BTW, if you ever want some really great non-Quebecois films or music just let me know. I can fill a CD and a couple of DVDs for you. We can start our own little cross cultural culture exchange program
-------------------- George: So, my whole life, everything, all I get to keep are thoughts and memories? Rube: That's all we ever have peanut. Posts: 12 | From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I really enjoy Claire Pelletier, though honestly, I don't understand the lyrics so her voice is another instrument to me. ETA: I have her Galileo CD which I'm playing right now.
I've never seen art exhibited as proudly as in Quebec. Traveling the towns of the southern (eastern) shore of the St Lawrence, there are artist shops[/studios] in abundance. Same in old Quebec City. You can not only see art in galleries, you may be lucky enough to see the artists at work, talk with them. These are of my experience. I'm sure it's pretty much the same throughout the province, or at least in ample pockets.
The people I met during my five months in Quebec seemed honest and earthy to me, very warm. I love the emotion of the Quebecois and the way they express themselves. I got to know an Acadian man, a dealer of antiques, very well. His sister pointed me to where I could buy fresh eggs and he serenaded me on instruments I'd never seen, never heard before, old instruments that he played as if they were part of him.
It doesn't matter to me that the rest of the world isn't impressed by any one specific bit of art of Quebec. You need only travel there and let the spell of the people fall over you.
-------------------- Explore, enjoy and protect the planet --- AAMAH Posts: 8532 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2000
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I give up, it's times like this that I really, really really which the english had finished the job they started on the plains of aberham (or however it's spelled)
is incredebly childish... Waddya mean? They (the english) won at the plaine d'Abraham! That they should have killed every Canadian maybe?
In every other French/etc Colony that the english won, they would convert the Colony folk to there religion and language (or deport them IIRC about the acadians). But because they were fighting a war at the time they took the french colony, the English didn't have the time or resources to make such a move. so they left them; and this is the result of their inaction.
Sorry buddy, you are almost right but it is way more complicate than that:
1760- Battle of les Plaine d'abraham Quebec city fell (some other skirmishes will happen but Canada has fallen to the English)
1763- End of the seven years war with the Paris treaty France loses all of its possessions in North-America except for the small islands of St-pierre & Miquelon... During the negotiations though, many British would have prefered giving back Canada & keep the Guadeloupe (the sugar market was twice more profitable than the fur one... and they wouldn't have to govern 65 ooo catholics)
1774- Quebec act by that time, it was 80 000 catholics that inhabited the then called province of Quebec. Ho!.. and there were 200 protestants. An impossible situation arose if they were to follow the british rules; catholics couldn't be jurors. By the quebec act, the inhabitants could keep their religion and code of civil rights (they had more rights than the catholics in Great-Britain)
1776- a little revolution begins down there
1791- Upper and Lower Canada created Because of the massive arrival of loyalists, the province of quebec is seperated in 2 so that the loyalists don't have to live under french laws. Upper Canada (now Ontario) with a population of 10 000 & Lower Canada (Québec)
1840- Union act Resulting of the 1837-38 patriot rebellion, both Canadas are united. Though Lower Canada has a larger population, both provinces have the same number of deputies (reducing the political weight of the french-speaking population)
and from then, assimilation was the priority. Until the mid-twentieth century mind you (I can't say that I live now in a state that wants me to assimilate to the english majority... hence the nation thing. I really thought it was de facto; two founding nations, equal before the state)
And remember, the Acadians were deported in a time of war (in fact, it is because they were in a time of unrest that it happened) So yes, at the beginning, the sheer number of people made it impossible to assimilate those filthy Canadian... but be sure that they tried to do so in the 19th century allright.
Sorry for the long and boring reply Posts: 20 | From: Montréal | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wacky Nephews: And I even forgot The Arcade Fire, one of my favourites from the last year.
But I think we have answered a much bigger question here. Both sides are quite fond of pointing out that the other doesn't "get" them. Yet neither side is willing to talk to the other to find out if it's true. Some how the lines of communication have become "You hate us so we want to leave!" "You hate us so we want you to leave but please leave your land!" When they should be "Here's what we would like and why" and "Here's why we think [u]this[/u] is a better option" The latter is a much more constructive way of approaching the issue.
But that's just me blabbering on...
BTW, if you ever want some really great non-Quebecois films or music just let me know. I can fill a CD and a couple of DVDs for you. We can start our own little cross cultural culture exchange program
Arcade fire!!! I forgot them... I know what I'll be listenning at work tomorow.
Your blabbering is quite just... and I am far from hating that country. Canada IS one of the nicest place on earth. The people I met all over it were charming. But I never really felt "at home". Could be cultural references, langages, vision of life... I don't really know. I just think it is time for my people to build something on their own. Be it in a less intrusive federation or alone. Oh! and many of my friends are strong federalists (and not just the anglophones one) and I love them nonetheless.
And you know what, I am a movie buff and I know zilch about canadian films (the last one I almost saw was "men with brooms"). I would certainly benefit from a tip or two... That cultural exchange thing might not be a bad idea.
Posts: 20 | From: Montréal | Registered: Jan 2005
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I give up, it's times like this that I really, really really which the english had finished the job they started on the plains of aberham (or however it's spelled)
is incredebly childish... Waddya mean? They (the english) won at the plaine d'Abraham! That they should have killed every Canadian maybe?
In every other French/etc Colony that the english won, they would convert the Colony folk to there religion and language (or deport them IIRC about the acadians). But because they were fighting a war at the time they took the french colony, the English didn't have the time or resources to make such a move. so they left them; and this is the result of their inaction.
Sorry buddy, you are almost right but it is way more complicate than that:
1760- Battle of les Plaine d'abraham
I'm not ignorent of quebec or canadian history, but if the english had gone and finished this then, in 1760, perhaps deporting them, then they would never have had to deal with the french. The Quebec nationalism draws it's roots from that event, and others.
I did an essay on the Parti Québécois when I was in high school, I know a reasonible amount of information about this issue.
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Read at your own risk. Posts: 667 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2006
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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by FireSpook: I'm not ignorent of quebec or canadian history, but if the english had gone and finished this then, in 1760, perhaps deporting them, then they would never have had to deal with the french. The Quebec nationalism draws it's roots from that event, and others.
I did an essay on the Parti Québécois when I was in high school, I know a reasonible amount of information about this issue.
ok, maybe my post was too lengthy (you didn't event bother to read it all...You stopped at 1760. It was boring, I'll admit, but it would have made you understand why it was impractical to deport the Canadians.)so I will try to be more concise: in 1760, the war was not yet over & there was still hope to bargain with France using Canada as a bargainnig token. In 1763, when Canada was given to England, there was almost NO anglophone inhabitants in Canada (aroud 200)... deporting all of the inhabitants of a colonny (and so taking away its workforce) would mean its bankrupty (ok, the indians were existing (and certainly a capable workforce) but they were not taken into consideration by the europeans)
If you take the acadian deportation (le grand dérangement) for an example; the acadian peninsula had been an English possession since 1713... there WAS english settlers in what is now Nova-Scotia when began the deportation. The acadian population was between 10 000 & 15 000. Historians estimate de number of deportees to be around 10 000. And yet, in spite the colossal effort to make them disapear, the Acadians are still existing today.
In Canada, the population was approximatly 6 time bigger.
Please, be logical 2 seconds and imagine what it would have taken logisticaly at that time to get rid of 60000 people and how could they possibly be replaced overnight by good Englishmen so the colonny would still be viable. IMPOSSIBLE.
ok, seems like I was not able to be concise, ah well...
oh, one last thing "I think it's time the french canadians get over it and accept the fact that they lost."
Yeah, yeah. Once that fact accepted, all will be good.
If you take the acadian deportation (le grand dérangement) for an example; the acadian peninsula had been an English possession since 1713... there WAS english settlers in what is now Nova-Scotia when began the deportation. The acadian population was between 10 000 & 15 000. Historians estimate de number of deportees to be around 10 000. And yet, in spite the colossal effort to make them disapear, the Acadians are still existing today.
They exist to day, but they are a broken nation of people, their is no hope of them ever recreating a single united nation like quebec is.
quote:Please, be logical 2 seconds and imagine what it would have taken logisticaly at that time to get rid of 60000 people and how could they possibly be replaced overnight by good Englishmen so the colonny would still be viable. IMPOSSIBLE.
Breaking a nation is fairly easy to do, such as banning french or Catholicism.
The acadians are merely one way of breaking a nation of people; there are other ways, but the english never did this. The Quebec nation never stopped being a quebec nation, because the english did not try to break it. And your right they didn't really have the people to do it.
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Read at your own risk. Posts: 667 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by FireSpook: The Quebec nation never stopped being a quebec nation, because the english did not try to break it. And your right they didn't really have the people to do it.
The English never wanted to break the French Canadians, rather they figured given time they would assimilate.
But since you wrote an essay on the PQ in high school, I'm sure you know that.
-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TwoGuyswithaHat: But since you wrote an essay on the PQ in high school, I'm sure you know that.
ah, that was harsh, but man did I laugh my ass off.
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-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by MapleLeaf: Seriously, though, I am anticipating trouble.
It looks like Stephen Harper found Brian Mulroney's dice and just gave them another roll.
-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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I remember reading an article some time ago in which a First Nations chief said that if Quebec left Canada, the First Nations would leave Quebec. He said that they held their lands under a treaty with the Queen, and did not know anything about a "Republic of Quebec."
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quote:Originally posted by Elkhound: I remember reading an article some time ago in which a First Nations chief said that if Quebec left Canada, the First Nations would leave Quebec. He said that they held their lands under a treaty with the Queen, and did not know anything about a "Republic of Quebec."
There has been talk of various possibilities of this. Some talk if Quebec chooses to leave they will only be allowed to leave with the original land they joined confederation with. The Cree of Northern Quebec would remain in Canada etc. etc.
I aluded to this somewhat in an earlier post. Seperatists see the Canadian nation as divisible because it is a civic nation, where the Quebecois are an ethnic nation. However, the moment the idea of portions of Quebec choosing to remain in Canada is raised due to ethnicity, the idea of a "Republic of Quebec" suddenly becomes a civic nation and therefore indivisible.
-------------------- In politics, absurdity is not a handicap - Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 1801 | From: The Forest City, Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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