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snopes
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Comment: Here's an email I received, supposedly from one of the men
depicted in "Blackhawk Down." Sounds legit but you never know. Thought you
might want to check it out. (If the guy has this much to say, why not
write a book, instead of passing around a story on the Internet?)




The author was one of the Blackhawk pilots depicted in the movie Blackhawk Down.
==================
During the last few days many pilots have come up to me and asked me if I had seen the movie "Blackhawk Down." I don't mind talking about the movie, and I welcome the opportunity to talk about the heroism and valor of my friends. I just wanted to post some comments here about the movie and my impressions. Also I wanted to try to answer some frequently asked questions.

First of all, I and many of my friends that also flew on the mission thought that the movie was excellent! It is technically accurate and it is dramatically correct. In other words, the equipment, lingo and dialogue are all right on. By dramatically correct, I mean that it very
effectively captured the emotions and tension that we all felt during the mission.

It did this without being a cartoon, (like TOP GUN) or being over the top, (like FIREBIRDS). It's true that the screenwriters had to consolidate two or three people into one, but this was necessary because otherwise there would have been too many principal characters to keep track of. Also in the actual mission we had nearly 20 aircraft in the air that day. In the movie they had 4 Blackhawks and 4 "Little Birds". The unit could not afford to commit the actual number to the filming of the movie. However, through the magic of the cinema, they were able to give the impression of the real
number. Our force mixture was as follows: Super 61 - Lead Blackhawk Star 41-44 Little Bird Assault Super 62 - Trail Blackhawk.

These aircraft made up the assault force. Their mission was to go into the buildings and capture the individuals who were the target of the day. Super 61 was shotdown, killing both pilots. (They were CW4 Cliff Wolcott and CW3 Donovan Briley. The three of us shared a room at the airfield.) Star 41 landed at the crash site and the pilot CW4 Keith
Jones ran over and dragged two survivors to his aircraft and took off for the hospital. Keith re-enacted his actions in the movie. Super 62 was the Blackhawk that put in the two Delta snipers, Sergeant First Class Randy Shughart and Master Sergeant Gary Gordon. They were inserted at crash site #2. Shortly after Gary and Randy were put in Super 62 was struck in the fuselage by an antitank rocket. The whole right side of
the aircraft was opened up and the sniper manning the right door gun had his leg blown off. The aircraft was able to make it out of the battle area to the port area where they made a controlled crash landing. (This is not depicted in the movie.)

Next was the Ranger Blocking Force. This consisted of 4 Blackhawks: Super 64 (CW3 Mike Durant, CW4 Ray Frank) Super 65 (Me, Cpt Richard Williams) Super 66 (CW3 Stan Wood, CW4 Gary Fuller) Super 67 (CW3 Jeff Niklaus, CW2 Sam Shamp)

The mission of the blocking force was to be inserted at the four corners of the objective building and to prevent any Somali reinforcements from getting through. In the movie there is a brief overhead shot of the assault. My aircraft is depicted in the lower left hand corner of the screen. This is the only part of the film where I come close to being
mentioned. As the assault is completed, you hear the Blackhawks calling out of the objective area. When you hear, "...Super 65 is out, going to holding..." that's my big movie moment. There is also a quick shot of an RPG being shot at a hovering Blackhawk. I did have one maybe two fired at me, but I did not see them or the gunner. I only heard the explosions. We were not able to return fire, although some of the other
aircraft did. Make no mistake. I am fully aware of my role in this mission. My job was the same as the landing boat drivers in "Saving Private Ryan." Get the troops in the right place in one piece. I am very proud of the fact that my crew and I were able to do that. After having done this in Grenada, Panama and Somalia, I can identify with the bombardiers of World War Two. You have to ignore all of the chaos that is going on around and completely concentrate on the tasks at hand. That is holding the aircraft as steady as possible so the Rangers can slide down the ropes as quickly and safely as possible.

Okay, Okay, enough about me. Super 64 was shot down also with an RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade). They tried to make it back to the airfield, but their tail rotor gave way about a mile out of the objective area. They went down in the worst part of bad guy territory. The dialogue for the movie appears to have been taken from the mission tapes as it is exactly as I remember it. (This was the hardest part of the movie for me to watch). The actions on the ground are as described by Mike Durant, as he was the only one from the crew to survive the crash and the gun battle. It was here the Gary and Randy won their Posthumous Medals of Honor.

Super 66 was called in at about 2000 hours to resupply the Rangers at the objective area. Some of the Rangers were completely out of ammunition and were fighting hand to hand with the Somali militiamen. (Also not depicted in the movie). Stan and Gary brought their aircraft in so that they were hovering over the top of the Olympic Hotel with the cargo doors hanging out over the front door. In this way they were able to drop the ammo, water and medical supplies to the men inside. Stan's left gunner fired 1600 rounds of minigun ammo in 30 seconds. He probably killed between 8 to 12 Somali militiamen. As Stan pulled out of the objective area, he headed to the airfield because
his right gunner had been wounded, as had the two Rangers in the back who were throwing out the supplies. Once he landed, he discovered that he'd been hit by about 40-50 rounds and his transmission leaking oil like a sieve. Super 66 was done for the night.

The final group of aircraft were the 4 MH6 gunships, and the command and control Blackhawk and the Search and Rescue 'Hawk'. They were Barber 51-54 MH6's Super
63 C&C Super 68 SAR.

In the movie, the gunships are shown making only one attack. In fact, they were constantly engaged all night long. Each aircraft reloaded six times. It is estimated that they fired between 70 and 80,000 rounds of minigun ammo and fired a total 90 to 100 aerial rockets. They were the only thing that kept the Somalis from overrunning the objective area. All eight gunship pilots were awarded the Silver Star. Every one of them
deserved it!

Next is Super 68. The actions of this crew were very accurately portrayed. The only difference was that they were actually hit in the rotor blades by an RPG. This blew a semicircle out of the main rotor spar, but the blade held together long enough for them to finish putting in the medics and Rangers at the first crash site. It was then that they
headed to the airfield. What they did not know, was that their main transmission and engine oil cooler had been destroyed by the blast. As they headed to the airfield all 7 gallons of oil from the main rotor gearbox, and all 7 quarts from each engine was pouring out. They got the aircraft on the ground just as all oil pressures went to zero. They then
shutdown, ran to the spare aircraft and took off to rejoin the battle. They were in the air just in time to affect the MEDEVAC of Super 62, which had landed at the seaport. The pilots of this aircraft were CW3 Dan Jollota, and MAJ Herb Rodriguez. Both men were later awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. Major Rodriguez is retired from the Army now and he teaches middle school with my wife in Clarksville, Tennessee.

Finally there is the Command and Control Blackhawk, Super 63. In the back of this aircraft was my battalion commander, LTC Matthews, and the overall ground commander, LTC Harrell.

In the movie, there is a scene where the men on the ground were begging for MEDEVAC. By this point in the battle we had 5 Blackhawks out of action, either shot down or shot up so much they couldn't fly anymore. Of the two assault force and four blocking force 'hawks', only myself and Super 67 were left. I fully expected LTC Harrell to send us in to try to get those men out. I jacked a round into the chamber of my pistol
and my M16. I knew that the only way to do was to hover with one wheel balanced on the roof of the building. Then the Rangers would be able to throw the wounded in. I knew that we were going to take a lot of fire and I was trying to mentally prepare myself to do this while the aircraft was getting hit. My friends had all gone in and taken their
licks and now I figured it was our turn. (Peer pressure is such a powerful tool if used properly.) Quite frankly, I really thought that we were at best going to get shot down, at worst I figured we were going to be killed. The way I saw it we had already lost 5 aircraft, what was 2 more? I had accepted this because at least when this was all over General Garrison would be able to tell the families that we had tried everything to get their sons, fathers or husbands out. We were even willing to send in our last two helicopters. Fortunately for me LTC Harrell realized that the time for helicopters had passed. The decision was made to get the tanks and armored personnel carriers to punch through to the objective area. Once again, the dialogue in the movie is verbatim. What you don't hear is me breathing a sigh of relief! I remembered thinking that maybe I was going to see the sunrise after all.

I guess I got a little carried away. I really didn't mean to write this much. People ask me if this movie has given me 'flashbacks'. I don't think you can call them flashbacks if that day has never been out of my mind.

I hope that when you do see the movie it will fill you with pride and awe for the Rangers that fought their hearts out that day. Believe me, they are made of the same stuff as those kids at Normandy Beach. When 1LT Tom DiTomasso, the Ranger platoon leader on my aircraft, told me that we did a fantastic job, I couldn't imagine ever receiving higher praise than that. I love my wife and children, but the greatest thing I've ever done is to be a Nightstalker Pilot with Task Force Ranger on 3-4 Oct 1993.

Thank you for reading this. I look forward to answering any and all questions anyone may have about the movie or the actual battle. I just thought that this might fill in some of the blanks. Thank you again.

Capt. Gerry Izzo(Super65) "NSDQ" Nightstalkers Don't Quit

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GI Joe
Jingle Bell Hock


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Excellent letter.

A couple days after this incident, the US Special Ops Command faxed to key subordinate units a 55 page document consisting of first person narratives of this event. The next day they sent out another messgae classifying the document as Top Secret and ordering all copies collected and, at least in the unit I was in, destroyed. Quite a shame - it contained many points not included in either the movie or book.

The sad thing about this incident is that it was a repetition of an earlier fiasco, this time on a larger scale.

In Dec 89', the same Delta/TF160 units conducted a prisoner rescue raid at the Carcel Modelo prison in Panama City, Panama, which initiated Operation Just Cause.

Within 10 minutes of the beginning of the operation, a gunship which was supposed to knock out the anti-aircraft guns in the adjacent Commandancia compound was itself shot down, landing inside the Panamanian Army's General Headquarters. After the American citizen was freed, and the extraction helo was called in, the enemy AA waited until everyone was loaded up, and opened fire. The extraction helo staggered off the roof, flew a block or so, then crashed behind enemy lines. Minutes later, these AA guns next knocked down another helo belonging to a different unit, killing its pilot.

So, 15 minutes into the attack, two helos are down with surviving crew and passengers stranded behind enemy lines at two separate places, and a third helo crashed into the Panama Canal. Sound famaliar?

Fortunately, a mechanized battalion from the 6th Infantry Regiment, 5th Infantry Division was supporting the attack. Their armored personnel carriers were able to fight their way to the downed rescue chopper and rescue the resucers. Remarkably, the gunship crew E&Ed successfuly amid the confusion in the enemy compound.

Despite this sobering experience, no lessons appeared to have been learned. In Somalia much the same faulty tactics were employed, only worse. At least in Panama the attack was at night, giving the hovering helos some protection in the dark. The 160th was denied even this in Somalia. And of course, they also failed to appreciate the need for armored backup, until it was too late and they had to hijack a Paki unit's vehicles. Worse, they hadn't even bothered to coordinate with the US light infantry units in Mogadishu in case they needed backup, so they even denied themselves a rapid rescue by those forces that were on scene. Not smart.

The individual men in these units are magnificent, but the ability of their leadership to conduct realistic mission planning in the 1st half of the decade was disturbing. Failure to learn from one's mistake can be fatal.

--------------------
Once a Warrior Prince

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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There is supposed to be a pilot from one of the helicopters involved in that mission speaking at my school later this week. His name is Randy Jones. If I get a chance maybe I should ask him about this guy? [Wink]

--------------------
This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Ged
The Red and the Green Stamps


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"In the movie, the gunships are shown making only one attack. In fact, they were constantly engaged all night long. Each aircraft reloaded six times. It is estimated that they fired between 70 and 80,000 rounds of minigun ammo and fired a total 90 to 100 aerial rockets."

The only C-130 gunships with miniguns still operating at this time were AF Reserve gunships, but these aircraft fired 20mm and 40mm rounds as well as miniguns. Why would someone boast about the smallest guns aboard? Answer: because they're not talking about C-130 gunships (the rockets give this away too).

However, I think Army and Air Force Special Ops personnel use the term "gunship" when talking about the C-130 gunships, not when talking about helicopters armed with miniguns, etc. That is to say, the term "gunship" applied to an armed helicopter is a Hollywood thing.

Of course, I could be wrong.

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Sgt Otter
The Red and the Green Stamps


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They are referring to the Army's AH-6 Little Bird helicopters, with the 7.62mm miniguns and rocket pods.

Usually in the US military "gunship" refers to the AC-130, a converted cargo plane used as an airborne weapons platform.

The Air Force AC-130 (depending on if it's in a Spectre or Spooky configuration) has a 40mm Bofors cannon, a 105mm howitzer, and either a 20mm or 25mm rotary cannon. Very nasty.

There wasn't AC-130 gunships on the day of the raid, but I believe they were used several days after, to convince the Somalis to release CWO Durant.

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Kingfish
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by GI Joe:
Excellent letter.

A couple days after this incident, the US Special Ops Command faxed to key subordinate units a 55 page document consisting of first person narratives of this event. The next day they sent out another messgae classifying the document as Top Secret and ordering all copies collected and, at least in the unit I was in, destroyed. Quite a shame - it contained many points not included in either the movie or book.

The sad thing about this incident is that it was a repetition of an earlier fiasco, this time on a larger scale.

In Dec 89', the same Delta/TF160 units conducted a prisoner rescue raid at the Carcel Modelo prison in Panama City, Panama, which initiated Operation Just Cause.

Within 10 minutes of the beginning of the operation, a gunship which was supposed to knock out the anti-aircraft guns in the adjacent Commandancia compound was itself shot down, landing inside the Panamanian Army's General Headquarters. After the American citizen was freed, and the extraction helo was called in, the enemy AA waited until everyone was loaded up, and opened fire. The extraction helo staggered off the roof, flew a block or so, then crashed behind enemy lines. Minutes later, these AA guns next knocked down another helo belonging to a different unit, killing its pilot.

So, 15 minutes into the attack, two helos are down with surviving crew and passengers stranded behind enemy lines at two separate places, and a third helo crashed into the Panama Canal. Sound famaliar?

Fortunately, a mechanized battalion from the 6th Infantry Regiment, 5th Infantry Division was supporting the attack. Their armored personnel carriers were able to fight their way to the downed rescue chopper and rescue the resucers. Remarkably, the gunship crew E&Ed successfuly amid the confusion in the enemy compound.

Despite this sobering experience, no lessons appeared to have been learned. In Somalia much the same faulty tactics were employed, only worse. At least in Panama the attack was at night, giving the hovering helos some protection in the dark. The 160th was denied even this in Somalia. And of course, they also failed to appreciate the need for armored backup, until it was too late and they had to hijack a Paki unit's vehicles. Worse, they hadn't even bothered to coordinate with the US light infantry units in Mogadishu in case they needed backup, so they even denied themselves a rapid rescue by those forces that were on scene. Not smart.

The individual men in these units are magnificent, but the ability of their leadership to conduct realistic mission planning in the 1st half of the decade was disturbing. Failure to learn from one's mistake can be fatal.

When you say "They" failed to appreciate something, it's important to clarify. General Garrison asked for a package with armor and AC-130 gunships, but he was denied. They had to make due with what they had.

Hitting the Bakara market in the daytime wasn't the first choice. Unfortunately, it was time sensitive intel which made it necessary. If they had waited for nightfall, the Tier one personalities they were going for would have been gone.

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Sgt Otter
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Kind of off-topic, but I picked up the Black Hawk Down DVD today. Good picture & sound, but not much in extra features, except for a quick making-of.
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snopes
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Comment: Is this true?

We wish Bill Clinton a quiet retirement, if only he'd return the favor. But
when the former President distorts history for the sake of political
advantage, someone has to clean up afterward.

Responding to Bush Administration suggestions that some of today's corporate
scandals first got out of hand under his watch, Mr. Clinton recently shot
back: "These people ran on responsibility, but as soon as you scratch them
they go straight to blame. Now, you know, I didn't blame his [President
Bush's] father for Somalia when we had that awful day memorialized in 'Black
Hawk Down.' I didn't do that."

We can understand Mr. Clinton wanting to defend himself, but as usual he
can't get his own facts straight. His introduction of Somalia here is one of
those breathtakingly brazen attempts to dodge responsibility for which Mr.
Clinton is justly famous. Here's the real history:

President Bush the Elder sent U.S. forces into Somalia in December 1992 to
aid the United Nations in relieving a massive famine. In May of 1993, four
months into his term, President Clinton declared that mission accomplished
and pulled out most of the U.S. force. In a speech on the South Lawn to
associate himself with the effort, he extolled the decision to intervene:
"If all of you who served had not gone, it is absolutely certain that tens
of thousands would have died by now." It was a "successful mission," he
said, and "proved yet again that American leadership can help to mobilize
international action."

But back in Somalia, with no U.S. deterrent, Somalia's warlords began
fighting again. After a series of bloody attacks on U.N. peacekeepers, Mr.
Clinton launched a new mission: In August 1993, he sent in a force of
Rangers and Special Forces units to capture the brutal warlord Mohammad
Farrah Aidid and restore order.

That force asked for heavy armor -- in the form of Abrams tanks and Bradley
armored vehicles -- as well as the AC-130 gunship, but the Clinton
Administration denied those requests. On October 3 on a mission to pick up
Aidid, two Black Hawks were unexpectedly shot down; in the ensuing urban gun
battle, 18 American soldiers were killed and another 73 injured.

Many military experts believe that if the U.S. forces had had armor, fewer
would have died. Secretary of Defense Les Aspin resigned two months after
Somalia, having acknowledged that his decision on the armor had been an
error. A 1994 Senate Armed Services Committee investigation reached the same
conclusion. But perhaps the most poignant statement came from retired
Lieutenant Colonel Larry Joyce, father of Sergeant Casey Joyce, a Ranger
killed in Mogadishu: "Had there been armor . . . I contend that my son would
probably be alive today."
Mr. Clinton's responsibility in Somalia doesn't stop there. Despite the
mistakes that October day, Aidid had been struck a blow. The U.S. military,
with 18 dead, wanted nothing more than to finish what it had started. Mr.
Clinton instead aborted the mission. The U.S. released the criminals it had
captured that same day at such great cost, and the U.N., lacking U.S.
support, was powerless to keep order. Somalia remains a lawless,
impoverished nation. Worse, the terrorists of al Qaeda interpreted the U.S.
retreat from Somalia as a sign of American weakness that may have convinced
them we could be induced to retreat from the Middle East if they took their
attacks to the U.S. homeland.

Those are the facts. The reason Mr. Clinton can't blame the events of "Black
Hawk Down" on President Bush's father is because those events had nothing to
do with him. They were Mr. Clinton's responsibility, and his alone.

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Ursa Major
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:


Responding to Bush Administration suggestions that some of today's corporate
scandals first got out of hand under his watch, Mr. Clinton recently shot
back: "These people ran on responsibility, but as soon as you scratch them
they go straight to blame. Now, you know, I didn't blame his [President
Bush's] father for Somalia when we had that awful day memorialized in 'Black
Hawk Down.' I didn't do that."

.

It's hard to tell from this summary of the Clinton interview but I suspect that someone may have shoehorned "when we had that awful day memorialized in 'Black Hawk Down.'" into his actual comments.
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Goes-hmmm
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I'm not going to say that the Clinton administration is without blame for what happened to our troops in Somalia, but I think it is legitimate to ask why Bush sent troops into Somalia when he did. Was it a going away present to the incoming Clinton administration? Or revenge for losing the election in November? He could have sent troops in there years before, they ample humanitarian reasons to do so for the previous couple of years. So, why did George wait until after the election? Kind of nice of George to give Bill a Christmas present. A nice sticky situation for the military to get into; much better than keyboards missing 'W's and a little porno in the copy machines.

Goes-"inexplicably inextricable"-hmmm

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Goes-hmmm:
I'm not going to say that the Clinton administration is without blame for what happened to our troops in Somalia, but I think it is legitimate to ask why Bush sent troops into Somalia when he did. Was it a going away present to the incoming Clinton administration? Or revenge for losing the election in November? He could have sent troops in there years before, they ample humanitarian reasons to do so for the previous couple of years. So, why did George wait until after the election? Kind of nice of George to give Bill a Christmas present. A nice sticky situation for the military to get into; much better than keyboards missing 'W's and a little porno in the copy machines.

Goes-"inexplicably inextricable"-hmmm

If you read a little bit more about our troops in Somalia, you'll find two important points:

- The inital mission to provide humanitarian aid was very successful.

- By the time Clinton took office the US troop present had already been greatly reduced in favour of UN peace-keepers.

It is a bit rediculous to suggest that the early successes forshadowed the death of American troops eight months later. Furthermore, as president of the United States, Clinton could have brought those men home any time.

Beach...isn't that how it works when you are president...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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The Regular Otter
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The troops sent in by Bush I were US Marines under United Nations command on a routine UN peacekeeping mission. They hit the beach with pretty much everything in the Marine inventory.

Clinton sent in Special Operations commandos from the Army, Navy, and Air Force and had them directly under US Army command, on a "nation-building" mission. They were conducting actual combat missions, not peacekeeping. Secretary of Defense Les Aspin also refused the Army request for AC-130 gunship support and armored vehicles, because they were afraid it would look bad on CNN.

Apples and oranges.

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The Ota Faction
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by The Regular Otter:
Secretary of Defense Les Aspin also refused the Army request for AC-130 gunship support and armored vehicles, because they were afraid it would look bad on CNN.


Not one tenth as bad as poor Bill Cleveland being dragged half naked through the streets, though. Then again, anything goes when it comes to the tired old game of politics. If they thought it'd buy them half a point in the polls, they'd nuke Manhattan.

--------------------
"Tell me what you eat, and I will tell you what you are." - Anthelme Brillat-Savarin
"That lonely recluse who lives down the road is crying out. So is that pregnant teenager. And the prostitute. And the drunkard."
Join the Free State Project - I did!

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