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Author Topic: Her royal highness who smelt it dealt it?
Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Chow me if this has been on the message board in the past 320 years. Did Edward De Vere really make a fart in the presence of the Queen? Is it possible that this story was created to cover up what was actually a royal passing of the gas?

edit: corrected faulty year math!

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Senior
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Alison Weir, in The Life of Elizabeth I, tells the story about how de Vere broke wind when bowing to Elizabeth and, greatly ashamed, absented himself from court for seven years. When he retured, Weir writes that Elizabeth's first words to him were "My Lord, I had quite forgotten the fart." Unfortunately, Weir does not footnote her book.

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Ad astra per asparagus.

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timbobmc
Jingle Bell Hock


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I'd heard that before, but with no footnotes...

Did you know that Edward de Vere is the highest contender for being the "real" Shakespeare? Just a little more trivia.

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Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen.

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Electrotiger
Deck the Malls


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As opposed to, uh... Shakespeare?

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Mr. Sagan did not go too fars, If you just took the time to scan its,
You'd count billions and billions of stars, And billions and billions of planets.

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timbobmc
Jingle Bell Hock


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Yep, as opposed to Shakespeare. There are several scholars who believe that Shakespeare's knowledge of court life was too detailed for someone who was merely the son of a mayor.

Some believe that Francis Bacon was the actual writer of works attributed to Shakespeare, but litary analysis of works known to be by de Vere show similarities to "Shakespear"'s work.

I don't know if this is so... I'm just reporting what I've read. I're read it in several places, but here is a good website.

Oxford Society Shakespeare Page

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Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by timbobmc:
Yep, as opposed to Shakespeare. There are several scholars who believe that Shakespeare's knowledge of court life was too detailed for someone who was merely the son of a mayor.

Some believe that Francis Bacon was the actual writer of works attributed to Shakespeare, but litary analysis of works known to be by de Vere show similarities to "Shakespear"'s work.

I don't know if this is so... I'm just reporting what I've read. I're read it in several places, but here is a good website.

Oxford Society Shakespeare Page

Yes, I think one of the more recent "theories" has been hashed about in another recent thread. Personally, I think that is all a bunch of horse manure. The person who wrote Shakespeare's plays was Shakespeare.

The person who supposedly farted was De Vere. And both creations would live forever in the annals of history.

But I'm wondering if there's only one source for the fart story. I hate to ruin a good story, especially one that's been around so long. It just seems to have all of the qualities of a humorous story, epsecially the "I forgott the fart" bit. (If this were a modern urban legend it could never have such a subtle ending. It would have to end with some extremely unlikely pun or some other corny innuendo. But I have the feeling Aubrey had a more refined sense of humor.)

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timbobmc
Jingle Bell Hock


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I've seen the fart story in a book by Karen Cushman entitled "Catherine Called Birdy." Only she uses it as a report of someone who farted in front of the French King.

This book IS fictional and is set during the reign of Edward Longshanks.

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Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen.

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Ganzfeld
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quote:
Originally posted by timbobmc:
I've seen the fart story in a book by Karen Cushman entitled "Catherine Called Birdy." Only she uses it as a report of someone who farted in front of the French King.

Is the self-imposed exile part of that story too?
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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Ona side-note, i've dropped a few wrong 'uns in the company of royalty in my time - my 'crowning glory' was during an investiture, a few yards away from HRHQEII and gas had been building in the hours since i'd eaten about 1.5 tins of beans on a baked potato...

I primed myself to release a (hopefully) silent and non-odourous clanger but unfortunately fate decided otherwise - a wavering trumpet-like note issued forth and it hummed like a sunnuva bitch [lol]

The Queen took it in her stride i'm pleased to say, but half of the congregation immediately started spluttering their amusement, just as Michael Caine was becoming a Knight of the realm too! [Big Grin]

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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Ganzfeld
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Funny story!

I thought Caine missed his knighting ceremony? Oh, no he missed his son's knighting ceremony... as Nigel Powers... nevermind!

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RealityChuck/Boston Charlie
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by timbobmc:
Yep, as opposed to Shakespeare. There are several scholars who believe that Shakespeare's knowledge of court life was too detailed for someone who was merely the son of a mayor.

You do see the fallacy of that arguement, don't you? It assumes that Shakespeare was incapable of researching the information necessary for his work -- a skill that the lowliest of authors learns to master early on. Aaron Sorkin never worked in the White House, but he was able to write "The American President."
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Ulkomaalainen
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Actually, I do think that this little mishap was once more "common". It did not make the smell better, but it was commonplace enough in those (smellier anyway) times, that there would probably have been no need at all to be too ashamed, let alone go into exile.

Ulko "though it can be nice in different countries" maalainen

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Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Ulkomaalainen:
Actually, I do think that this little mishap was once more "common". It did not make the smell better, but it was commonplace enough in those (smellier anyway) times, that there would probably have been no need at all to be too ashamed, let alone go into exile.

Okay, I see what you are saying and it is a point well taken. But the story emerges a mere century later. At the time the story was told, it was obviously thought to be plausible that someone would go into voluntary exile for seven years for breaking wind. Surely society didn't develop a new shyness in those 100 years between the event and its first known telling?
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Ulkomaalainen
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Well, considering how a certain line by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe used to be normal, then suddenly disappeared from the books (replaced by three dashes) because of it being "foul language", considering how the openness to talk about certain bodily functions changed during the times, sometimes comparatively quickly, I would not rule it out.

There's two things in German, both in all probability apocryphal as about the persons to whom they are attributed, but apparently "from the time" in German. One would be Martin Luther's "Ihr rülpset und Ihr furzet nicht, hat es Euch nicht geschmecket" (you neither belched nor farted, didn't you like the meal), which he probably never said, but it is an old quote, so it must have captured at least some general line of thought someday. The other is Emperor Franz of Austria using a fart as an excuse to giving a toast to Austria-Hungary. Probably apocryphal, too, and a little off line at that time as well (otherwise no need to mention it), but it would be possible. OTOH, it would certainly make a difference, if I were a royal highness farting in presence of a mere commoner, or the other way round.

So I think, the incident in the OP would be possible (but it not having happened at all, too, of course). Still, I am sceptic [Smile]

Ulko "likes a good meal but still..." maalainen

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JR
We Three Blings


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I doubt the story has any basis in fact. Apparently Elizabeth was none to shy about her own farts, and the French amabassador was somewhat appalled by young Elizabeth's nonchalance about such things.

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Semper ubi sub ubi

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by JR:
I doubt the story has any basis in fact. Apparently Elizabeth was none to shy about her own farts, and the French amabassador was somewhat appalled by young Elizabeth's nonchalance about such things.

This seems to be more support for the story, actually. The comment about having forgotten the fart would indeed be someone who was none too shy about such things. The seven year exile was supposedly self-imposed so it was De Vere who was said to have been mortified by having cut the cheese in royal company.
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Marzndruz
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
quote:
Originally posted by timbobmc:
Yep, as opposed to Shakespeare. There are several scholars who believe that Shakespeare's knowledge of court life was too detailed for someone who was merely the son of a mayor.

Some believe that Francis Bacon was the actual writer of works attributed to Shakespeare, but litary analysis of works known to be by de Vere show similarities to "Shakespear"'s work.

I don't know if this is so... I'm just reporting what I've read. I're read it in several places, but here is a good website.

Oxford Society Shakespeare Page

Yes, I think one of the more recent "theories" has been hashed about in another recent thread. Personally, I think that is all a bunch of horse manure. The person who wrote Shakespeare's plays was Shakespeare.

The person who supposedly farted was De Vere. And both creations would live forever in the annals of history.

But I'm wondering if there's only one source for the fart story. I hate to ruin a good story, especially one that's been around so long. It just seems to have all of the qualities of a humorous story, epsecially the "I forgott the fart" bit. (If this were a modern urban legend it could never have such a subtle ending. It would have to end with some extremely unlikely pun or some other corny innuendo. But I have the feeling Aubrey had a more refined sense of humor.)

As a believer in Shakespeare-as-Shakepeare, I've always wanted to believe the fart story just as a means of deflating the snobs. If your ancestor (de Vere) was famous through history only as the man who farted in front of the Queen, wouldn't you want to promote the idea that he did something worthy of greatness - like writing Hamlet?

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My doctor told me to drink more. I didn't realize he was talking about water.

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Senior
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Samuel Johnson, in his A Dictionary of the English Language, gives the following definition:

to fart. To break wind behind.
As when we gun discharge,
Although the bore be ne're so large,
Before the flame from muzzle burst,
Just at the breech it flashes first;
So from my lord his passion broke,
He farted first, and then he spoke - Swift

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Ad astra per asparagus.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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There is also some controversy about the trip abroad, for during his time away his wife gave birth and he accused her of adultery and divorced her. (From memory of the wiki entry so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Yet there was some suggestion that he had indeed been back during the seven years and that the child may have been his.

If the true reason for his time away was because of flatulation, why would he go so far as to cover up a brief return with a lie and divorce? (I'm sure there is a lot more to the divorce story but why the lie?)

This has got to be the most famous fart in history.

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lioness
Deck the Malls


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This fart is so famous, that in another drama about Elizabeth I shown recently on PBS called "The Virgin Queen" had her saying that line when the person who originally broke wind had a tooth pulled to show her that the pain wasn't that bad when she had to have a painful tooth taken out.
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RobotHero
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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One of the stories in 1001 Arabian Nights covers similar ground. Here is a take on that story.
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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by RobotHero:
One of the stories in 1001 Arabian Nights covers similar ground. Here is a take on that story.

Ooh oooh! Thanks! That predates the fart story by several centuries and contains two other essential items: The self-imposed exile and the remark upon returning. I'm starting to think the De Vere story is a kind of legend.
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