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Author Topic: Fluoride
1958Fury
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Well, toothpaste usually does have a poison warning on the label. It also instructs you to supervise children when they use it.

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magpie
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I never figured out why some people were so afraid of flouridated water. From the articles I've read they make it sound like a mind-control device implanted in the water by our government to make us all mindless slaves.

I have flouride drops I give my baby because our water isn't flouridated. Dr approved and perscribed.

Yeah, most things in large amounts will have a negative effect or kill you. But what child would be able to stomach eating a whole tube of toothpaste? That's really disgusting.

As for the lead vs. flouride thing, I would be tempted to say that's not true, but I really don't have anything to back that up.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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The message in the OP is worded very weirdly. 1/100 of an ounce of fluride might kill an infant, but since only 199 milligrams are in a tube, and there are 28,349 mg in an ounce, there is less than 1/100 of an ounce in an entire tube of toothpaste. There are, if I'm doing this math correctly, 7/1000 of an ounce. Please tell me if I did that wrong.

edited to add more math.

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eif
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First, fluoride is not a substance by itself but rather a class of compounds. Its the same as calling table salt chloride when the same lable to apply to potassium chloride and thousands of other compounds.

Sulfuryl fluoride (pesticide)is not the same fluoride that we use in toothpaste (Stannous fluoride AKA tin fluoride)

Unless they are clear about WHICH compound they are talking about, ignore it.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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Aud
We Three Blings


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Just yesterday I read something from the ADA (American Dental Society) about children in naturally fluoridated areas. They had no higher risk of any disease and a lot fewer cavities than children in unfloridated (either natural or added)areas. Mind control wasn't mentioned.

I'll look for the newsletter I read that it but for your reading enjoyment:
http://www.ada.org/public/topics/fluoride/news.asp

My niece who isn't even 3 months old just got two teeth and two more are on the way.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Unknown Soldier:
A friend sent me this little "fact":

"Did you know that Fluoride is more poisonous than lead and just slightly less poisonous than arsenic. It has been used as a pesticide for mice, rats and other small pests. A 10-pound infant could be killed by 1/100 of an ounce and a 100-pound adult could be killed by 1/10 of an ounce of fluoride. A 7-ounce tube of toothpaste contains 199 mg. of fluoride, more than enough to kill a 25-pound child."

I can't find any other information about this other than what's stated. What do you guys think? Seems a bit alarmist to me and that the circumstances required for it to have that affect are too out of the norm to ever happen accidently.

Fluoride is quite toxic, just like everything else, so long as you ingest/come in contact with a certain amount. Sodium fluoride, which is used in toothpastes, has an LD50 of about 54 mg/kg of body weight. But 100 mg of sodium fluoride is a lot, and I think a child would probably throw up before ingesting an entire 7 oz tube of toothpaste.

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Mr. Baggins
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Fluoride is part of the Communist conspiracy, don't you all know? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

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geminilee
The First USA Noel


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I don't know what y'all are talking about. I had flouridated water my whole life, and trust me, there is no mind con...
MUST KILL....MUST KILL.....

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DawnStorm
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
[QUOTE]Fluoride is quite toxic, just like everything else, so long as you ingest/come in contact with a certain amount.

Thank you! First rule of toxicology: the dose makes the poison.

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by DawnStorm:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
[QUOTE]Fluoride is quite toxic, just like everything else, so long as you ingest/come in contact with a certain amount.

Thank you! First rule of toxicology: the dose makes the poison.
That's true. Even water can be toxic in large quantities. It's called drowning.

(edited for spelling)

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Finite Fourier Alchemy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by 1958Fury:
quote:
Originally posted by DawnStorm:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
[QUOTE]Fluoride is quite toxic, just like everything else, so long as you ingest/come in contact with a certain amount.

Thank you! First rule of toxicology: the dose makes the poison.
That's true. Even water can be toxic in large quantities. It's called drowning.

The industry standard for "toxic" is defined by OSHA in 29 CFR 1910.1200, Appendix A, along with a host of other health and safety standards and definitions that are - or should be - the standard for anyone working in a chemical environment.

Sodium fluoride is "highly toxic" which makes it Very Bad if administered in concentrated doses.

Water is not a recognized physical health hazard, for the same reason that falling in a dirt hole is not a recognized physical health hazard. Neither danger is due to specific chemical or material properties of water or dirt.

Toxicity can certainly be considered a sliding scale, but there are things which are unarguably very toxic, and there are things which are unarguably nontoxic. Water, dirt, air, love, and peace, are not toxic.

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:Water, dirt, air, love, and peace, are not toxic. [/QB]
I have to disagree about love. It can be quite acidic.

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Electrotiger
Deck the Malls


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quote:
That's true. Even water can be toxic in large quantities. It's called drowning.
It's also sometimes called hyperhydration.

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You'd count billions and billions of stars, And billions and billions of planets.

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Finite Fourier Alchemy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by 1958Fury:
quote:
Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:Water, dirt, air, love, and peace, are not toxic.

I have to disagree about love. It can be quite acidic. [/QB]
That's not normally the case. Love is like oxygen.

Perhaps yours was tainted love?

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Thinking about New England / missing old Japan

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DawnStorm
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Electrotiger:
quote:

It's also sometimes called hyperhydration.
Last summer, a DC policeman died of that. Many of the people interviewed had never heard of that condition. [Frown]

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:
quote:
Originally posted by 1958Fury:
quote:
Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:Water, dirt, air, love, and peace, are not toxic.

I have to disagree about love. It can be quite acidic.

That's not normally the case. Love is like oxygen.

Perhaps yours was tainted love? [/QB]

Now I know what song's going to stuck in my head the rest of the day....

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eif
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by geminilee:
I don't know what y'all are talking about. I had flouridated water my whole life, and trust me, there is no mind con...
MUST KILL....MUST KILL.....

You had flour put in your water? Wasn't that a little thick? Could you just bake it into bread? Was it white or whole wheat?


Sorry, pet peeve of mine when people write flour- when they mean fluor-

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by eif:
Sorry, pet peeve of mine when people write flour- when they mean fluor-

That's a very specific pet peeve; it must not come into play much, unless you work in the field. My pet peeve is people who write rouge when they mean rogue. But that comes from playing D&D.

(edited for spelling - like pretty much all my posts.)

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eif
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quote:
Originally posted by 1958Fury:
quote:
Originally posted by eif:
Sorry, pet peeve of mine when people write flour- when they mean fluor-

That's a very specific pet peeve; it must not come into play much, unless you work in the field. My pet peeve is people who write rouge when they mean rogue. But that comes from playing D&D.

(edited for spelling - like pretty much all my posts.)

Well I do have a PhD in Chemistry so part of it is from work. But I've seen handwritten signs in ToysRus for "FLOURESCENT" markers. Also a hardware store was selling "FLOURESCENT" light bulbs. The kicker is I'm a poor speller. I have dyslexia. But that mistake just jumps out at me.

BTW, my handle "Eif" was the name of my first D&D character - a half-elf magic user.

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Where I come from we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it History.

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Damian
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I have been drinking fluoridated water my whole life and it hasn't harm me any done!

(Actually, I'm 36 years old and have never had dental caries, so it can't be too bad.)

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snopes
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Too much of a good thing on tap?

A panel of experts has recommended the Environmental Protection Agency lower the maximum safety limit of fluoride in water from its current 4 milligrams per liter. An estimated 200,000 people across the U.S. have drinking water that naturally contains this amount or higher. The National Research Council panel cited damage to children's teeth and a possible heightened risk of bone fractures in the elderly.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-closer27mar27,1,3340227.story

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noysey
The Swordfish in the Stone


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I would like to offer a testimonial to the advantages of fluoride, if I may.

My ex-wife and I were both born and raised in the S.F. Bay Area and had good dental care as children. We both took reasonably good care of our teeth (could have been better) and ended up with fillings in most of our molars. Our water supply at that time did not have any fluoride, natural or added. I mention this because I feel that the tendency toward strength or weakness of teeth is inherited.

Our first child was born in 1964 when the water still did not contain fluoride and we used drops added to formula/food until EBMUD, the public water supply, added it, I'm not sure when. All three of our children got good dental care and probably did about the same as the wife and I did toward brushing.

The children easily have 1/3 or fewer the number of fillings as my wife and I do, now that they are adults. The only difference was fluorilde while their teeth were forming. The comparison is striking. [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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On the other hand, I didn't drink fluoridated water until I was almost 11, and have no fillings at all.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Meaty Pop
Remembrances of Things Bass


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Baggins:
Fluoride is part of the Communist conspiracy, don't you all know? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women ... But I do deny them my essence.

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Don't drink and derive--know your limits

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Class Bravo
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Back when I was in elementary school (late 80s-early 90s), every Friday we got a little cup of flouride and we had to swish it for a minute and then spit it out. Do they still do that, or is it now a forgotten art?
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Cervus
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quote:
Originally posted by Class Bravo:
Back when I was in elementary school (late 80s-early 90s), every Friday we got a little cup of flouride and we had to swish it for a minute and then spit it out. Do they still do that, or is it now a forgotten art?

Oh god, I hated "Swish". I can still taste it. It came one flavor: Green. It was nauseating.

One girl in my fifth grade class was made to stay after school because she hated Swish so much, she faked it one day and didn't actually put it in her mouth. It was a big scandal at the time to be so rebellious. [Cool]

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Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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00-Saleen
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AAUUGGH, horrid memories--bleech, SWISH, you demon spawn!!

We have a well at home. I rarely, if ever drank city water in college, and don't drink tap water here. I had sealants on my molars when I was younger. I have had ONE cavity; now I have a lovely resin filling.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Many water sources, including wells, are naturally fluoridated.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Class Bravo
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Oh god, I hated "Swish". I can still taste it. It came one flavor: Green. It was nauseating.

One girl in my fifth grade class was made to stay after school because she hated Swish so much, she faked it one day and didn't actually put it in her mouth. It was a big scandal at the time to be so rebellious. [Cool]

Oh man, at my school it only came in the flavor of Red, but something tells me it tasted the same as the Green served at your school. That stuff used to gag me, and I was once rebellious for a few weeks as well. I pretended to put it in my mouth and then hid the cup in my desk for the remainder of the minute. Luckily I was never caught, and I'm hoping the statute of limitations has since expired.
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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Many water sources, including wells, are naturally fluoridated.

And some are naturally slightly radioactive.

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All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

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snopes
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More Fluoridated Water Needed, Officials Say

Los Angeles County health officials Monday called for additional fluoride in water throughout the county and state, in response to a new study that identified oral disease as the No. 1 health problem among California's elementary-school children.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/news/2523.html

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abigsmurf
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I thought obesity was no.1?

Incidently there was an article in our local paper which said there was a 45% percent increase in fluoride related illnesses in areas with floridated water, mostly florosis but some much worse conditions. The local council are trying to get flouride removed from our local water supplies.

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Gadfly
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by noysey:
I would like to offer a testimonial to the advantages of fluoride, if I may.

My ex-wife and I were both born and raised in the S.F. Bay Area and had good dental care as children. We both took reasonably good care of our teeth (could have been better) and ended up with fillings in most of our molars. Our water supply at that time did not have any fluoride, natural or added. I mention this because I feel that the tendency toward strength or weakness of teeth is inherited.

Our first child was born in 1964 when the water still did not contain fluoride and we used drops added to formula/food until EBMUD, the public water supply, added it, I'm not sure when. All three of our children got good dental care and probably did about the same as the wife and I did toward brushing.

The children easily have 1/3 or fewer the number of fillings as my wife and I do, now that they are adults. The only difference was fluorilde while their teeth were forming. The comparison is striking. [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Gee . . . may I inquire as to your profession? I'm gonna go out on a limb here: er, DENTIST? work for the ADA?, dental equipment rep?

Your--anecdotal--testimony is right out of the ADA playbook. I should know, I (as part of a local grassroots effort in our town) gave the local dentists a kick in the nuts when we solidly defeated their attempt (for the 3rd time) to fluoridate our town.

[BTW, the dentists would always run and hide whenever a public forum or debate was suggested (also right out of the ADA playbook). It's funny, once you've fought the fight, how obvious their tactics are -- which they duplicate in every venue.]

Fluoride is a poison. Yes, it IS between arsenic and lead in toxicity. LOOK IT UP. I did.

Fluoride may not be "toxic" in minute quanities, but it is a CUMULATIVE poison -- it just loves cartilagenous tissue and bone. The damage is done over many years of exposure. Dentists know nothing about toxicology, they only parrot what they've been taught and woe to any dentist who deviates from the party line -- can you say yanked license?? The ADA makes a bundle off of fluoride products -- can you say conflict of interest?

It's, at the very least, ignorant for MDs and DDSs to prescribe fluoride drops or tablets for kids. First of all, it's specifically contraindicated for children under 6 months. Further investigation would reveal that most people--kids included--get MORE than the recommended amount of fluoride in their daily beverage and food intake. Did you know that such items as tea, milk, grape juice, colas, potatoes, grapes, hamburgers -- the list goes on and on -- generally provide in EXCESS of the safe daily level of fluoride. Betch ya never heard that little gem from your friendly local dentist. Fluoride drops? Get REAL!

Oh, and here's some anecdotal information for you: I was born and raised in fluoridated Chicago and I've got at least SIXTEEN mercury-silver fillings in my mouth.

Do some research and you'll find that most fully fluoridated communities still have kids with rotten teeth, it's just that the local dentists don't cry about it there. And how `bout those dumb Europeans? They have pretty good teeth, but only about 2% fluoridation. Connect the dots and open your minds. Get over your paradigm paralysis.

All those who snigger and make comments about "communist conspiracies", "mind control" and such are stooping to facile disinformation/propaganda tactics -- hardly worthy of the "superior" minds that frequent snopes.com, n'est-ce pas?
[Roll Eyes]

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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I grew up with flouridated water and *never* had a single cavity - 35 years and counting. Both of my parents have extensive dental work, and did not come to north america until they were in their early 20's.

I also hated "medicinal" flavouring (cough syrup used to make me throw up), so when the "swish" came around in 8th grade (1983/84) I asked my parents not to sign the parental release form, because I didn't really want to throw up in front of my whole class every month. I was the only one who did not have the permission form signed, and thus, the only one who was excused from it. My classmates thought this highly unfair, but the simple truth was that I was not *allowed* to have it. That seemed like the longest minute of their lives, and even from a distance, it smelled horrible. Granted, our teacher was a good sport about this and joined in the voluntary torture, she didn't seem to enjoy it very much either.

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"The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat

Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
noysey
The Swordfish in the Stone


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Gadfly:
I am a retired machinist, just as my profile says. My post may sound like the garbage you seem to feel dentists put out, but it is the truth as I have experienced it. I read the information about fluoride, acted upon it, and it has given the results I described in the post. I surely had no motives or qualifications other than to contribute my personal story to this thread.

Posts: 161 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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