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ladyknight
The First USA Noel


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Dear friends: On Friday it will be 15 years since my son Joe died in a seven-story fall from his college dorm room in Madison, Wis. He had taken LSD; he was 18. After all this time, it is no less awful a loss.

This is from the Oct. 11, 2004 StarTribune. The columnist's name is Al Sicherman. This doesn't say he jumped, so it might have just been that he was disoriented, but it seems to add some credence to people jumping off buildings while on LSD.

ETA: My point.

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Triumphs cannot be given. They must be taken, and the worse the odds, and the fiercer the resistance, the greater the honor. -- A Civil Campaign, Lois McMaster Bujold

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BrianB
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by ladyknight:
Dear friends: On Friday it will be 15 years since my son Joe died in a seven-story fall from his college dorm room in Madison, Wis. He had taken LSD; he was 18. After all this time, it is no less awful a loss.

This is from the Oct. 11, 2004 StarTribune. The columnist's name is Al Sicherman.

I found this site that has the original 1989 essay plus some additional commentary written in 1999:
quote:
Of course I would have. It makes no difference what drug it was. Joe took something that seriously impaired his judgment, and in an instant it cost him -- and his friends, and his family -- more than he ever could have imagined.

Alcohol accounts for far more such tragedies than does LSD, and if I were writing this column now I would not make it so focused on the specific drug that was the agent of Joe's death. It isn't about LSD; it's about how a simple bad choice can have a horrible outcome -- an outcome whose terrible permanence most people, by the grace of God, cannot fully comprehend.
{ snip }
Although Joe apparently was with friends most of the evening, the police said he was alone when he went out the window. We'll probably never know exactly what happened in those last minutes, but judging by our own reading of him and by what lots of others have told us, we're sure he wasn't despondent. Many of his friends, including one who spoke at his funeral, said that he was very happy and enjoying his life in Madison.

The likeliest explanation we've heard is that he had the hallucination that makes a person think he can fly. In any case, a little after 1 o'clock Sunday morning, Oct. 15, somebody studying across the courtyard saw a curtain open and then a body fall. Joe didn't cry out.

I also found this earlier discussion on item 2.
I can't speak for anyone else but I took LSD twice back in '79 and at no time did I think I could fly. In fact, at no time did I have any irrational thoughts that I could do anything impossible. The only feeling I did have was one of extreme giddiness.
Brian

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"Dear Big Foot Smellers: Please don't quote me on some of this information." John F. Winston

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magpie
Deck the Malls


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I've heard the popping knuckles=release of LSD one before. The guy claimed that the acid stays in your nervous system forever.

If you take a large enough quantity of LSD I don't think you would be able to move to get to a window. From what I know (and I won't say how I know) anything more than about 6 times the "typical" dose will put you into a deep internal fantasy that really doesn't involve a whole lot of getting up and walking around. Lower doses, or when it's wearing off, will certainly include more movement.

Here's one I've heard- Denver, CO is the acid capital of the world.

And as for #3, I have no doubt that has happened. In fact, I'm sure it happens quite a lot, though LSD doesn't need to be involved. Intoxicate the right person and he'll jump out a window, it depends more on the person than the drug/drink. I knew someone in college that used to get drunk, go up on the roof and threaten to kill himself a lot. I also knew someone who used to think it was cool to use his climbing equipment to scale school buildings under the influence.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I'm sure that in the decades in which LSD has been in use and among the millions of people who have used it, at least one has jumped from a high place to his doom, whether or not it was because he thought he could fly. But does that mean it's not a legend or a story used to scare people out of using the drug?

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Officially Heartless

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diddy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Here's one I've heard- Denver, CO is the acid capital of the world.
I allways knew there was a reason that it was known as the "mile high" state.. [fish]

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Slightly OT, (but still related), could anyone tell me what kinds of things people hallucinate when they are feverish or severely dehydrated? Are they any different than LSD-induced hallucinations?

- Pseudo_Croat

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"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Silver
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
Slightly OT, (but still related), could anyone tell me what kinds of things people hallucinate when they are feverish or severely dehydrated? Are they any different than LSD-induced hallucinations?

- Pseudo_Croat

Um, I've had two incidences of hallucinations in my life, no LSD hallucinations, though.

The first time, I was 15. I had just had jaw surgery, so it may have been the pain meds that caused me to hallucinate. I was slightly dehydrated because I didn't want the liquid food my parents were offering, and I couldn't eat other food. I was spitting up blood. Anyway, my friend Jer had promised to visit me while I was recovering from my surgery, and I clearly remember him coming into my room, sitting on the bed next to me, and talking to me. He vanished when my mom came in the room, and she assures me he was never there.

The second time, I was 19 and had lithium poisoning. My parents brought me to their house and nursed me on the couch from Friday night until Monday morning, when they finally realized they could do nothing for me, and I was, in fact, dying of dehydration. I would throw up anything, liquid or solid, and I was constantly hallucinating. The two I remember most vividly are the Dragonball Z hallucination (where I saw characters from a television show I'd only seen once in my life dancing and fighting in the air above my head) and the Subway Sandwhich hallucination. On the third day, I was so hungry, but still couldn't keep anything down, and I thought about Subway subs much of the time. I could taste the bread and meat, the crisp lettuce, the olives, and the mayo. I could feel the texture of the food in my mouth. The only thing missing was the satisfaction of a full stomach. [Frown]

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"To begin with take warning, I am surely far different from what you suppose;"
~Walt Whitman

Question everything . . .

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vampyrviolia
Happy Holly Days


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A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

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He grooms dogs too.

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medtchva
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by JmD:
quote:
Originally posted by medtchva:

1. barbituates - i.e. opium, morphine, codeine
2. benzodiazepines - i.e. Valium, Diazepam
3. cocaine
4. THC(marijuana)
5. LSD
6. PCP
7. amphetamine - i.e. methamphetamine (crack), MDMA (ecstasy), ephedrine
8. tricyclic antidepressants - i.e. amitriptyline, doxepin, imipramine

Opium, morphine, and codeine are not barbituates. And ephedrine is not an amphetimine, although it is used as an ingredient in the making of crystal meth. Also, crack is freebase cocaine, Not meth.
Sorry for the mistakes. But when looking at drug testing.... "Ephedrine alkaloids are amphetamine-like compounds used in OTC and prescription drugs with potentially lethal stimulant effects on the central nervous system and heart." It will show up as a positive for amphetamine. I should have included opiates as a separate class - it's been a while since I ran one of these tests. My bad!
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medtchva
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
Slightly OT, (but still related), could anyone tell me what kinds of things people hallucinate when they are feverish or severely dehydrated? Are they any different than LSD-induced hallucinations?

- Pseudo_Croat

Read some of the survivor stories from the USS Indianapolis about dehyrdration hallucinations. A series of miscommunications by the Navy led to this ship being sunk by a torpedo and the survivors left for 4 days in the water because no one knew the ship was missing. Dehydration from lack of fresh water or drinking salt water....

"Day 3
The sun finally did rise and it got warmed up again. Some of the guys been drinkin salt water by now, and they were goin bezerk. They'd tell you big stories about the Indianapolis is not sunk, its' just right there under the surface. I was just down there and had a drink of water out of the drinkin fountain and the Geedunk is still open. The geedunk bein the commissary where you buy ice cream, cigarettes, candy, what have you, "it's still open" they'd tell ya. "Come on we'll go get a drink of water", and then 3 or 4 guys would believe this story and go with them."

http://www.ussindianapolis.org/woody.htm

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NickFun
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I've only taken LSD twice so by all definitions I am sane. As a matter of fact, I am more sane than most aliens from the planet Xontar who consume prodigious amounts of LSD while contemplating their inevitable overthrow of this planet and I am the only one who knows about them because I've seen 'em!

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"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —George W. Bush, Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

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Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


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I had a teacher in highschool who worked very hard to keep his personal philosophy to himself. He wanted us to think for ourselves, not think what he thought.

Except when someone mentioned LSD. He told us he had had a brilliant student in the 1970s. She was top in her class and a joy to teach. Sometime during her senior year she tried LSD. Maybe it had something else in it, or maybe she had a really bad trip, but he said she was never the same. Her future changed, and not for the better, because of that one choice. 10-15 years later he was still angry about it.

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"Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst

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Amigone201
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by vampyrviolia:
A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

It was an old episode of Dragnet. Possibly the best one they ever made. At least, according to me that is.

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Check out my blog! http://fundiewatch.blogspot.com

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magpie
Deck the Malls


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Was your teacher in Switzerland too? I was suprised to find that in Europe there is a much harder stance against LSD. Even in Amsterdam when talking to locals about it, they would all say how dangerous and scary LSD was and how you can't find it anywhere in Europe. Here in the US it's more of a casual weekend drug like pot, ecstacy and mushrooms.

As for the unfortunate student, some people are just more affected by certain chemicals than others. Just as I knew people in college who would go to work every day high and be able to function just fine, whereas some people can barely pick up the bong after 1 hit.

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Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


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I live in Switzerland now, but I grew up in the greater Seattle area. My teacher was (is?) also a native Washingtonian.

Reading a bit about LSD, it seems that the dosages in the 60s and 70s were much higher than the current dosages use for recreational use.
quote:
In the late 1990s, LSD obtained during drug law enforcement operations in the United States has usually ranged between 20 and 80 micrograms per dose. During the 1960s, dosages were commonly 300 micrograms or more.
Wikipedia

Most of the people I know are quite casual about tobacco, alcohol and marijuana usage. But many of the people I know are concerned about taking too many drugs, and that's just for normal sickness. Being out of control is normally reserved for the Swiss version of Mardi Gras.

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"Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst

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Sophia
Tic Tac Dough


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quote:
Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat:
Slightly OT, (but still related), could anyone tell me what kinds of things people hallucinate when they are feverish or severely dehydrated? Are they any different than LSD-induced hallucinations?

- Pseudo_Croat

well, about 8 years or so ago (i think i was 10 or 11 or something, young anyway), i went skiing with my family, and it was really hard for some reason, i kept falling down and i didnt feel good and then later that night i woke up with a horrible fever. it was 105, but thankfully my aunt is a nurse so she pretty much knew what to do. anyway, they were using one of those little 3 or 5 minute hourglasses to measure the time the thermometer was in me, and its really hard to explane, but i just remember laying there and looking up at this huge hourglass spinning around above me. it was just a much larger version of the one they were using but it was super wierd because their little hourglass was wooden and had a little boy on one end and a little girl on the other, so as i was looking up at this massive hourglass, there were these two little kids spinning it around and talking about me (haha). it was beyond weird. but eventually during the night my fever lowered so they didnt take me to the hospital.

the really weird part is that still to this day, i get this weird feeling, the same one i had when i was looking at the hourglass (this is really really hard to explane and no one gets it, but oh well...). when the hourglass was spinning, it would spin really fast, and then slow down and turn direction and spin really fast the other way, and now i sometimes get this "feeling" that things (cars, people, music, talking, pretty much anything) are moving too fast. it use to happen more when i was younger, i dont get it much anymore, but its just the strangest feeling. a few months ago i had it really bad all day, it felt like everything i was doing was too fast, the music was too fast, the game i was playing was going to fast, my mother was talking to me too fast. its just weird and i know it doesnt make any sense, but oh well. i just know that when i saw the spinning hourglass, i just "felt" like it was moving too fast and ever since then i get that feeling. weird. anyway, enough of my confusing ramblings.

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Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing?

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kjbrasda
Happy Holly Days


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I know exactly what you mean, Sophia, I had the exact same feeling when I had chicken pox. I think I was 13-14. I remember my mom trying to talk to me and I couldn't understand her because she was talking so fast.

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"Long ago, when we all lived in the forest..."
Who are you? Who? Who?

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NickFun
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I know exactly what you mean, Sophia. I had the same feeling when I was tripping on acid in '79.

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"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —George W. Bush, Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

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Cabcere
A View to a Krill


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quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
I had a teacher in highschool who worked very hard to keep his personal philosophy to himself. He wanted us to think for ourselves, not think what he thought.

Except when someone mentioned LSD. He told us he had had a brilliant student in the 1970s. She was top in her class and a joy to teach. Sometime during her senior year she tried LSD. Maybe it had something else in it, or maybe she had a really bad trip, but he said she was never the same. Her future changed, and not for the better, because of that one choice. 10-15 years later he was still angry about it.

Maybe I'm going to bring a stereotype or two on myself by saying this, but that sounds a lot like what happened to Pink Floyd founder Syd Barrett. [Frown]
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Fitz
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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The Blue Boy reference was to an old ep of Dragnet where Joe and Bill arrest a hippy kid called Blue Boy who is like the big time local LSD Guru. AS they spend time trying to get a law to bust him under (LSD was new and no laws aginst making and selling it were on the books) he ends up ODing on it, saying he wanted to get further and further out.
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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
Comment: I hear frequently from my friends that after a person has done
acid, it remains in their spinal fluid. I have heard two variations on
the next point: (1) Every time a former acid user pops his or her back, a
small amount of acid is re-released into that person's blood stream,
getting them on a small "trip," and (2) when doctors perform a spinal tap
procedure on a former acid user, they will be able to identify acid in the
spinal fluid, even up to 100(!) years later. Medically, I find these
claims difficult, if not impossible, to believe.

I first heard this from the D.A.R.E. officers, and later from one of my college roommates. She claimed a friend of hers had wanted to go into the Coast Guard, but then found out they perform a spinal tap on all applicants (recruits?) and since she'd once done acid, she wouldn't be eligible.
According to Erowid.com, which I believe to be a pretty reliable all-around resource for recreational-drug-related questions, the flashbacks associated with acid use may in fact be due to something like post-traumatic stress disorder:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_faq.shtml#flashbacks
Just throwing that out there. Makes sense to me.

ETA: Wow, my hundredth post...and it's about LSD. Could be worse, I suppose.

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by vampyrviolia:
A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

LSD and acid are the same thing. As far as I know it's impossible to overdose on acid. And I wouldn't take a DARE officer as the final authority on anything to do with the war on drugs- the program is responsible for the spread of a lot of scarelore.

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Officially Heartless

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James Irvine
Christmas in Kill Barney


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I can actually answer the question about LSD being stored in the body, thanks to my many many courses dealing with Biology, Biochem, and other medical type information.

LSD cannot make deposits in the body that might be released later, causing an acid trip. It's water soluble and can't form bodily deposits. Also, it's excreted from the body in several hours. The "flashbacks" a past user may have are purely psychological.

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"Whoah! That's more queer than a $1 bill!"
"Dude, no way! So am I!"

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James Irvine
Christmas in Kill Barney


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Also, LSD cannot alter or damage your DNA/Chromosomes. In fact, LSD typically causes psychological problems, not damage to the body. Indirectly it may harm the body by causing the user to engage in foolish acts, but this is not the case for everyone.

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"Whoah! That's more queer than a $1 bill!"
"Dude, no way! So am I!"

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magpie
Deck the Malls


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I really don't think they perform spinal taps on all new Coast Guard recruits...
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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I know. The things I fell for as a college freshman... [Roll Eyes]

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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Sophia
Tic Tac Dough


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well thats cool to know im not completely insane or something, heh. i musta had a part of my brain fried by my fever or something... haha

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Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing?

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Louise
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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(This relates to the question before about what people hallucinate about when they're deydrated)
On Discovery Channel, they have a show called I shouldn't be alive. On one of them, their ship sinks and they are stranded in the ocean. Two guys drank salt water and they started saying things such as I'll go get my car or that I'll go to 7-11.

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"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

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Louise
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by thistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by vampyrviolia:
A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

LSD and acid are the same thing. As far as I know it's impossible to overdose on acid. And I wouldn't take a DARE officer as the final authority on anything to do with the war on drugs- the program is responsible for the spread of a lot of scarelore.
You can overdose on anything, especially drugs, so I'm pretty sure you can overdose.

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"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

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Phaedra
Jingle Bell Hock


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Quick shufti on Google shows there is only one reported case of LSD overdose. This does not of course include deaths caused by people thinking they can fly.

I once watched in horror as a young man on an LSD 'high' shouted out “I am Jesus” before running across the room and literally launching himself through a window four floors up. I could hardly bear to think of what I we might find as we rushed downstairs. I’m not sure how he managed it but he escaped with a nasty knee injury.

Posts: 589 | From: Oxfordshire, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
quote:
Originally posted by thistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by vampyrviolia:
A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

LSD and acid are the same thing. As far as I know it's impossible to overdose on acid. And I wouldn't take a DARE officer as the final authority on anything to do with the war on drugs- the program is responsible for the spread of a lot of scarelore.
You can overdose on anything, especially drugs, so I'm pretty sure you can overdose.
I guess it depends on what you mean by overdose. It is nearly impossible to take so much LSD that you are poisoned by it. It is quite easy to take so much LSD that you suffer ill effects psychologically.

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Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
bufungla
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by thistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
quote:
Originally posted by thistleS:
quote:
Originally posted by vampyrviolia:
A DARE cop once told my class the LSD stays in the fat system forever. Or was it acid? I don't know.
I don't really have any experience with drug as I've never done any. Why? Blue Boy, that's all I have to say. 10 pts and a rum ball for the reference.

LSD and acid are the same thing. As far as I know it's impossible to overdose on acid. And I wouldn't take a DARE officer as the final authority on anything to do with the war on drugs- the program is responsible for the spread of a lot of scarelore.
You can overdose on anything, especially drugs, so I'm pretty sure you can overdose.
I guess it depends on what you mean by overdose. It is nearly impossible to take so much LSD that you are poisoned by it. It is quite easy to take so much LSD that you suffer ill effects psychologically.
LD50 for LSD-25:

quote:
ORL-HMN LDLO 0.0007 mg kg-1
IVN-RAT LD50 16 mg kg-1
ORL-BWD LD50 1.8 mg kg-1

In English, that means the lowest published lethal dose for humans taking the substance orally is .7 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. Given that that equates to 700 micrograms for a 220 pound man, I'm not buying it. 300-400 µg would not be an uncommon recreational dose for somebody of that weight, and the likes of Leary and Kesey ate ten times that amount for breakfast on a regular basis back in the late 60s. The LD50 amounts for rats and birds seem more reasonable. Though those work out to thousands of "standard" doses for a full size human, it's still a small quantity overall, as human doses of LSD are usually measured in micrograms (as opposed to the 375 milligrams in a single aspirin tablet).

buf 'studying for the drug test' ungla

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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I'd like to revise my position. I no longer believe it is "nearly impossible" to OD on LSD, but that it is extremely uncommon and would require bizarrely large amounts of the drug.

Also, I am still skeptical of this "you can overdose on anything" claim. Can you overdose on bread?

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Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Cabcere:
quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
I had a teacher in highschool who worked very hard to keep his personal philosophy to himself. He wanted us to think for ourselves, not think what he thought.

Except when someone mentioned LSD. He told us he had had a brilliant student in the 1970s. She was top in her class and a joy to teach. Sometime during her senior year she tried LSD. Maybe it had something else in it, or maybe she had a really bad trip, but he said she was never the same. Her future changed, and not for the better, because of that one choice. 10-15 years later he was still angry about it.

Maybe I'm going to bring a stereotype or two on myself by saying this, but that sounds a lot like what happened to Pink Floyd founder Syd Barrett. [Frown]
I agree with ThistleS on this one. I do not believe that one dose of any drug could cause mental illness in someone who didn't have it, or cause a significant personality change. I think people are confusing correlation and causality. It's not surprising: faced with the tragic loss of a promising young person's future, people look for something to blame, a way it could have been different.

We don't even know for certain that extensive use of LSD, like Syd Barrett's, causes mental illness.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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bufungla
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by thistleS:
I'd like to revise my position. I no longer believe it is "nearly impossible" to OD on LSD, but that it is extremely uncommon and would require bizarrely large amounts of the drug.

Also, I am still skeptical of this "you can overdose on anything" claim. Can you overdose on bread?

Depends on how perversely you define "overdose". To some people, drowning is a case of overdosing on water, and either filling up one's stomach with bread until one choked or one's stomach burst (or kept it filled with bread exclusively until vitamin deficiency set in) could conceivably be defined as "overdosing on bread".

buf 'my brother suffered a drug-related death - he tried to quit dealing' ungla

--------------------
"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

Posts: 4847 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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