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Dugan
The Red and the Green Stamps


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IS THIS TRUE? THE ARTICLE INCLUDES PICTURES.

http://www.thecampaign.org/News/may02l.htm

May 21
This London.com

Featherless chickenA new breed of "naked" chicken created by scientists in the search for tastier, healthier poultry has angered animal rights campaigners.

Despite its bizarre appearance, the red-skinned broiler could become a supermarket success because it is designed to grow faster and contain less fat than normal chickens. It will also be cheaper to produce since its lack of feathers means there is no need to pluck it before it hits the shelves.

The new, genetically modified breed was reared by Israeli genetics expert Avigdor Cahaner, of the Rehovot Institute near Tel Aviv. He said it would grow faster in hot weather because it was not prone to over-heating like normal chickens, whose growth rate drops when they get too warm.

He said: "That's why the growth rate of broilers is significantly lower in hot seasons and why poultry meat is expensive in hot countries."

Mr Cahaner claims the birds produce leaner meat because no feathers means less subcutaneous fat, and farming them would be less damaging to the environment because poultry farmers would not have to use ventilation to prevent chickens overheating.

He said: "Feathers are a waste. The chickens are using feed to produce something that has to be dumped and the farmers have to waste electricity to overcome the fact."

Animal rights campaigners condemned the plan.

Adrian Bebb of Friends of the Earth said: "This is scientists tampering with our food again just to make it even cheaper. I think it will have a traumatic effect on animals and the public will be horrified."

Spencer Fitzgibbon, of the Green Party, said: "It's a monster of an animal. We should be working with nature, not against it. The bottom line is profit, but it should be animal welfare."

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SchmooPie
Deck the Malls


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The OP's cite is true but not totally accurate.
Here are some more accurate cites.
BBC News
Facts of Israel

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KitsuneOmajinai
The Red and the Green Stamps


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She make look a little weird, but I bet that chicken is still delicious!
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Snow-Dog
Jingle Bell Hock


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I'm not exactly following the horror that some are showing about this, yeah, it's a chicken bred without feathers, so what? If it does everything it's supposed to do then it's probably benificial for everyone.

Is this just some sort of "OMG we shouldn't play god!!1!" thing?

Snow-if we weren't meant to play god, then why did he make us in his image?-Dog

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Alkatr0z
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Kinda like them hairless dogs and cats isn't it? funny i never heard them complain about them...
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Setzer
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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The key difference here is that chickens are not (Usually) pets. They're food. As long as it doesn't actually hurt to be a featherless chicken, I'm fine with it. The world is overpopulated, and cheap food is needed. It's not cruel to have kids if you're genetically predisposed to baldness, is it?

Edit: Um, I don't know for sure, but doesn't "playing God" with animals like this make them unkosher? I mean, there is that list of things that make something kosher (Glatt or not), butdoes this count?

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Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Setzer:
Edit: Um, I don't know for sure, but doesn't "playing God" with animals like this make them unkosher? I mean, there is that list of things that make something kosher (Glatt or not), butdoes this count?

I don't see why, unless they splice in genes from a pig or something.
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Alkatr0z
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Mmmm dunno if that was to me Setzer but my point was no one complains about hairless cats and dogs and they have been specifically bred to be hairless. In other words no one should complain about hairless chickens if they don't complain about hairless cats or dogs. Its plain hypocrisy to do so.
As for people , people are not 'bred' to go bald and its not an evolutionary disadvantage so it can and has evolved natually in the wild. A hairless wolf is an evolutionary disadvantage hence its not something that is going to be sustained in the wild.

Kosher is not about pork only, its a whole range of things, from the way animals are slaughtered onwards. I know that Halal requires many things including the saying of a prayer over the animal and I believe again the way its bled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

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Ghost on Toast
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Actually Alcatroz, there are people who complain about people who breed cats and dogs to be hairless. The same people who complain when breeders in their continuing quest for 'perfection' breed cats and dogs to have certain distinctions. This is why the great British Bulldog can bearly breathe and Dalmations are often deaf.

However, we're talking chickens here, not pets. A lot of people do keep chickens at home though. I personally think this is messing with nature and I don't like it one bit.

We as humans are always searching for the perfect food, a convenient food. This is why so many apples are thrown away each year by growers because they don't fit with the 'perfect' apple image, we as consumers should fight this kind of thing and not buy this product if it hits the shops.

This is messing with nature for our own end - and do we yet know if this process will harm the chicken? It is designed to have feathers - surely it's wring therefore to 'design' a chicken without them!

And as for feeding the poor Setzer, we have cheap food already. If you want to you can live very cheaply. And us richer countries already have an excess of food that ends up rotting in storage - just because we have cheap food doens't mean it will get to those who actually need it.

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smartymarty66
I Saw Three Shipments


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Chickens use feathers to maintain their temperature and to protect them against UV rays. If you have these chickens, then the only place they could live is in the high intensive battery farms that are cruel. This is an unnecessary waste of resourses.
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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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The types of people complaining loudly about this are the types of people who would rather we not be eating the chickens at all. Sure, thats a valid position, but you shouldn't mask that by whining about things like this that don't really make it any worse. I don't see how breeding out feathers reduces the welfare of industrially raised poultry.
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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by smartymarty66:
Chickens use feathers to maintain their temperature and to protect them against UV rays. If you have these chickens, then the only place they could live is in the high intensive battery farms that are cruel. This is an unnecessary waste of resourses.

The farmers who will use this breed of chicken are already raising their chickens under those conditions. Its not like the alternative to this is that they'd suddenly start raising free range chickens in a quaint family farm. This is nothing but an adaptive change for chickens who will live in such an industrial environment anyway. If you want to end such practices, then campaign against them directly, don't beat around the bush.

How is this a waste of resources precisely? It saves resources.

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Jasini
I Saw Three Shipments


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Did no one else read this thread and think of Plato?

http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-9274982

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Jasini

Where there's a will, there's an or.
--Col. Jack O'Neill, SG1

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smartymarty66
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Errata:
quote:
Originally posted by smartymarty66:
Chickens use feathers to maintain their temperature and to protect them against UV rays. If you have these chickens, then the only place they could live is in the high intensive battery farms that are cruel. This is an unnecessary waste of resourses.

The farmers who will use this breed of chicken are already raising their chickens under those conditions. Its not like the alternative to this is that they'd suddenly start raising free range chickens in a quaint family farm. This is nothing but an adaptive change for chickens who will live in such an industrial environment anyway. If you want to end such practices, then campaign against them directly, don't beat around the bush.

How is this a waste of resources precisely? It saves resources.

First of all chickens can be raised commercially free range without the quaint family farm insult. the money and time used to produce naked chickens could be put to far better use rather than making sure we can stuff more chickens into already overcrowded spaces. One of the reasons the bird flu epidemic is a worry is because of the farming practices that cram chickens in so close together. I love chicken, just as I love eggs, if you have ever tasted free range chicken, you will understand that they really do taste better. We have our own chickens and get the eggs from them, (as well as free fertiliser and insect and weed control). By making the purchasing choices I make, I am supporting those industies that practice ethical tratment of the animals that we are going to consume. (No I am not a PETA activist, nor do I feel guilty about being a carnivore.) Maybe it because I live in a country that has so much space that I find any sort of intensive farming pratice unecessary.
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Alkatr0z
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Actually Alcatroz, there are people who complain about people who breed cats and dogs to be hairless. The same people who complain when breeders in their continuing quest for 'perfection' breed cats and dogs to have certain distinctions. This is why the great British Bulldog can bearly breathe and Dalmations are often deaf.
Unfortunately I see very few of these articles in the paper compared to articles about featherless chickens and other 'monstrosities' of nature. And why should it matter whether we are talking about pets or farmyard animals? They should still be treated on the same scale. Lets face it our society is all about perfection.. Thats why we have the Dog shows where every hair has to be in place, Beauty Contests where every hair and ermm other parts have to be just right(Gotta love that sticky tape! And yeh I know that college in the states is so expensive that its an excellent way to get a scholarship). No surprise then that breeders are constantly trying to create a more perfect dog as it'll sell nicely(and for lots) to the people who want to enter them into these shows and so on..

And last I read about Chicken Farming was that even the ones that aren't beefed up on hormones are quite often ones that have been breeded specially to be fast growing and have large breats. Result: Broken bones.. 'Barn Raised' -> Can't move in the barn cause of their broken legs but they're Barn Raised!
I'm sure there are many good farmers out there who are kind to their chickens but just as many who are nasty.

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Black Belt and Socks
The First USA Noel


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quote:
And last I read about Chicken Farming was that even the ones that aren't beefed up on hormones are quite often ones that have been breeded specially to be fast growing and have large breats. Result: Broken bones.. 'Barn Raised' -> Can't move in the barn cause of their broken legs but they're Barn Raised!
I'm sure there are many good farmers out there who are kind to their chickens but just as many who are nasty.

Do you have a site for this? I've been to numerous commercial chicken farms and never seen the "broken legs" you describe.

BB "where do the drumsticks come from?" &S

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Alkatr0z
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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One I said many, not all, and my apologies I recalled the article slightly wrong, its not broken legs but 'buckling legs' and other unmentioned leg disorders.
Anyway as for the website a quick trawl brought up the same thing I originally read(which was in New Scientist). They took their case about it through the courts where unfortunately it was lost at the High Court. Here are links to the various information, you might notice some of the reports are about the High Court decision. I worked hard to find newspaper articles rather than animal welfare site articles.

The original article I read
Another article linked from one of the High court reports
High court report by United Poultry Concerns
Another report by FarmUSA
And lastly the Guardians report

mmm found a nice one that is a bit more focused on the University of Bristol, unable to find anything on their site(well not through google anyway), though by searching their website for 'lame' & 'chickens' I came across a news item on the man behind the research.
PDF unfortunately, section 3.1.3

And there are lots of things that are done that are relatively little known, few people are aware for instance that farmed Salmon have some sort of dye(obviously edible but can't remember too much about it off the top of my head) included in their food to give them a nice pink colouring.. I look forward to the challenge for this one [Wink]

EDITED to add: I see you are from the US maybe the problem isn't the same as in the UK though I would frankly be fairly surprised if it wasn't a problem at all. I'd be amazed in fact..

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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What I want to know is can free-range livestock and other "natural" agricultural methods satisfy the food demands of a growing world population without having to resort to clearing more land for agriculture? My gut reaction says no, but if anyone can give any more info that confirms or denies my position, I will be grateful.

- Pseudo_Croat

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"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Alkatr0z
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Frankly I would think no as well, I don't know the statistics on that sort of thing though. I would be interested to hear them what the info on it is as well.

I notice that more and more free range products are being sold at least in my area and more stores are declaring whether its free range or not. It will be interesting to see if more farmers switch over to free range if the popularity of it keeps growing.. That should in turn presumably bring down the price of free range chickens.. I say presumably because I'm a sceptic and I believe that once they are selling something at a higher price and people are accepting it they'll keep it there.

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