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Hans Off
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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EBayer conned into paying £470 for a photograph of an XBox 360

Here


My Cow-orker did a search for the user names on Ebay and they seem legit.

[ 03. January 2006, 10:24 AM:   snopes ]

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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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This person (apparently) bought the empty box for $600...

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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notorious fluffy g
I Saw Three Shipments


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this is the first time i've seen someone actually say "this is the box only" but-- this is not the first time this has happened. pple got in trouble for this with the ps2 a few years back. they sold just the box as a scam on ebay. sons of b****'s. but it does speak to the sheep/got to have it first mentality of many of us. Gawd, say something is hard to get and suddenly everyone wants one. Where i work, we sell these 8 foot high snow globes for the lawn. when we were almost out of them last weekend, the boss jacked the price up by $50 bucks ( to 249.00) and they sold out in like, 2 seconds. jerks. I don't believe for one second there isn't a million of these damned gamebox things stashed away to generate more interest- then they'll be everywhere. whatever

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* Sir John Lubbock

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The box one - fair enough; it says in large emphasised letters very near the start "YES YOU ARE GETTING AN EMPTY BOX SO DO NOT ASK!", and constantly refers to the fact that you aren't buying the system.

The photograph one is well over the "false or misleading advertising" line, if you ask me. There's only a single sentence reference to the fact that it's a photo of an XBox 360 rather than an actual XBox 360 and it's buried in the third sentence from the end of a long, unbroken, more-or-less unreadable blurb about the XBox itself. And if that's the actual auction title, it flat-out states that it's something that it isn't. The person selling that is wide open for a legal case.

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Ulkomaalainen
Jingle Bell Hock


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In Germany there once was an auction "Giant collection of high quality DVDs." followed by a list of a few hundred blockbuster movie titles. In the end it said, equally well hidden, "This is what I want, so I'm gonna sell an old sock of mine in this auction to collect money" (roughly translated).

This much I've witnessed with my own eyes, next paragraph is hearsay:

This did not work. Apparently it was though to be grossly misleading, and the seller had to cover some legal costs resulting from this.

(Another version has it, that the seller gave the joke away when the auction had finished, payed his ebay fee, and never intended to cheat. I do not know, which version is true).

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Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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Joe Bentley
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The really common now with popular items is the "Information" auction. It usually goes something like this

"Bid now on a brand new, in the box Xbox 360! Ready to ship! Only 299.99!" followed by a description listing in detail the specs of the Xbox 360, all the great games it can play, etc and then in tiny, tiny print in the bottom it explains that the 299.99 dollars only gets you information about where to get a Xbox 360, usually tied in with one of those stupid scams where you have to give them information on a 150 of your friends, and get them to give information etc.

Here's one of these type of scam auctions.

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LibrarianJen
We Three Blings


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Joe - I looked at the link you included - how in the hell could he have such a high feedback score? Of course, I've never seen all of the item numbers listed as "private."
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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I see no problem selling the box and seeing if he gets a bite. It's clear that it's box-only, and that the box sold doesn't even resemble a real one.

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Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed.

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Wizard of Yendor
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I remember another one (for the original xbox, I think, be it could have been some other game system) where they said "You are biding on the xbox picture below". Easily misread as the xbox pictured below.
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emperor_genghis_khan
Deck the Malls


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I wonder if anyone else noticed that the item in the second post is a
quote:
just the xbox 360 homemade box
so the winner was gonna pay $611 for a homemade box. [Roll Eyes]

Edited: Yup Casey noticed

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Excuses satisfy only those who offer them. Your enemies won't believe them and your friends don't need them.

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Here I Am
Pimped Out


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One Xbox 360 empty box : $611.00
Shipping of said box : $15.00
Feeling you get when you receive empty box in the mail, and re-read the auction details, realizing you hadn't bothered to read the fine print : PRICELESS

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cheers

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rwolff
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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When the Playstation 2 came out, I heard of an auction for "PS/2 original box and receipt" - and that's exactly what they were selling (the box and receipt, not the game system).

I joked about it with some friends, wishing I had some grossly obsolete computer hardware that I could unload for a fortune as a result of namespace collision. Playstation 2 isn't the only item that was routinely abbreviated "PS/2" - the IBM Personal System 2 computers (most powerful one sold had, IIRC, a 486/33 processor, and the microchannel bus used in all but the least powerful was a dead-end technology by the time the Playstation 2 came out) were also abbreviated in the same manner - by IBM, no less.

I can just imagine loading one of these junker systems with a few shareware games and putting up an auction for "PS/2 model 30 with 5 games", of course with no mention of "playstation" anywhere in the text. Shouldn't be a problem with eBay (assuming the system in question was actually a model 30, rather than the marginally less powerful model 25), especially if the seller put up a number of other auctions for obsolete computer hardware (e.g. "12 MHz 80286 no-name desktop system, no monitor") at the same time, so that it would look (to eBay administration) like a batch unload, rather than deliberately targeting the namespace collision to make a few bucks.

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dave748
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Then again some people are just crazy, like the person who paid $1035 for a piece of nutri-grain that looked liked ET.
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jaygrm
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Where I work we make the boxes for the X Box. The box shown on the auction site was a second or refurbished X Box.
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The Hit Parade
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Speaking of E-Bay jokes, here's one for the British Indie fans:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arctic-Monkeys-A4-paper-with-name-on_W0QQitemZ7572252975QQcategoryZ58713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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applepwnz
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I was talking about this one with my mother, and she said that when she got my sister's Christmas present on EBay (Special Edition pink Nintendo DS only sold in Japan) she was very nervous about something like this happening (it didn't though), the pretentious jerk in me thinks that people deserve to get ripped off if they are stupid enough to be ripped off, but the nice guy in me thinks that it's a real shame that a mother has to read every word of the small of an online advertisement just to make sure that she won't get ripped off trying to get a present for her daughter.
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Singing in the Drizzle
Jingle Bell Hock


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I remember one year some store manager/worker was sell a PS2 or Xbox box only on e-bay. They whent to alot of work to make very sure everyone bidding knew that it was only a the box with nothing in it. Still the final bid over $300.

I wonder if some people read more than the first word or two before placing a bid.

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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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I have seen multitudes of questions on auctions asking things very clearly stated in the auction details. Not hidden. Not buried in boring paragraphs.

People. Don't. Read.

I say more power to anyone taking advantage of that fact. I *read* the auctions I bid on.

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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It's fraud

It doesn't matter if it says it in the auction that it's a picture. It's a missleading auction clearly designed to trick people into believing they are purchasing something other than what's being stolen.

to use an obtuse example. Darren Brown in the UK is a celibrity that performs a unique brand of mind tricks. One of these is a method used by pickpocketers. You ask someone for directions and keep asking them questions, then you ask them to hand over their wallet and maybe their watch.

The people willingly hand over said valuables, say bye and walk off. Then 30 seconds later they realise what they've done and chase after him.

People are easy to trick, even hugely obvious tricks can catch people out. The law is there to protect against this kind of thing that can defraud the most vulnerable people

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glisp42
I'm Dreaming Of A White iPod


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quote:
Originally posted by NZUL:
I have seen multitudes of questions on auctions asking things very clearly stated in the auction details. Not hidden. Not buried in boring paragraphs.

People. Don't. Read.

I say more power to anyone taking advantage of that fact. I *read* the auctions I bid on.

Your absolutly right. I sell antique auto parts and the first sentance of the listing says a)what it is and b)what it fits. Nevertheless I still get questions on what it fits.

Recently I had a guy buy a part for a 1950's Mercedes and try to put it on a 1984 Mercedes and left US negative feedback because HE bought the wrong part(after we offered to refund him if he returned the item to us).

On the other hand, taking advantage of that fact is not something I would consider ethical.

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What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK" and other lingo mean?

And we'll collect the moments one by one I guess that's how the future's done. -Feist

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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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Well, let me clarify my 'taking advantage' comment. The first post, where it was buried deep in xbox info that it wasn't an actual game but only a picture, was not "taking advantage of that fact". It was fraud. Out and out fraud, and reprehensible.

The one that clearly stated, in caps, that it was an empty box only, is "taking advantage of that fact" and in my ever so humble opinion, more power to this guy.

If you give people ample opportunity to not get tripped up, fine. If you are attempting to hide what you're doing, fraud.

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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momto4+
Deck the Malls


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It is not fraud or theft by deception if the seller states in his auction clearly what the auction is for. And he did. The person bidding did not read!!! This is more of a buyer beware auction. Just because the bidder didn't read all the information in the auction is not the fault of the seller.
This information was provided by my husband---the prosecutor in are town.

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A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wits and add drama to an otherwise dull day! -Calvin and Hobbes

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by momto4+:
It is not fraud or theft by deception if the seller states in his auction clearly what the auction is for. And he did. The person bidding did not read!!! This is more of a buyer beware auction. Just because the bidder didn't read all the information in the auction is not the fault of the seller.
This information was provided by my husband---the prosecutor in are town.

If you are referring to the photograph one, I guess we have a different definition of "clearly". To me, having a single sentence in a large body of text be the only identification is not clearly. Also, New Hampshire does not allow "misleading" sales practices. I would certainly call the title/description of the item to be misleading.

NH Statuates:
quote:
638:6 Deceptive Business Practices. –
I. A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if, in the course of business, he:
(a) Uses or possesses for use, a false weight or measure, or any other device for falsely determining or recording any quality or quantity; or
(b) Sells, offers or exposes for sale, or delivers less than the represented quantity of any commodity or service; or
(c) Takes or attempts to take more than the represented quantity of any commodity or service when as buyer he furnishes the weight or measure; or
(d) Sells, offers or exposes for sale adulterated or mislabeled commodities. ""Adulterated'' means varying from the standard of composition or quality prescribed by or pursuant to any statute providing criminal penalties for such variance, or set by established commercial usage. ""Mislabeled'' means varying from the standard of truth or disclosure in labeling prescribed by or pursuant to any statute providing criminal penalties for such variance, or set by established commercial usage; or
(e) Makes a false or misleading statement in any advertisement addressed to the public or to a substantial segment thereof for the purpose of promoting the purchase or sale of property or services.
II. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the defendant's conduct was not knowing or reckless.



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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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NZUL
Deck the Malls


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I would assume that the use of the word "clearly" in that sentence means it refers to the empty box auction, not the picture auction.

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"We don't keep a certified whale-vomit expert on staff." - Larry Penny, Director, Natural Resources Department, Town of East Hampton

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momto4+
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
[/qb]

If you are referring to the photograph one, I guess we have a different definition of "clearly". To me, having a single sentence in a large body of text be the only identification is not clearly. Also, New Hampshire does not allow "misleading" sales practices. I would certainly call the title/description of the item to be misleading.

NH Statuates:
quote:
638:6 Deceptive Business Practices. –
I. A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if, in the course of business, he:
(a) Uses or possesses for use, a false weight or measure, or any other device for falsely determining or recording any quality or quantity; or
(b) Sells, offers or exposes for sale, or delivers less than the represented quantity of any commodity or service; or
(c) Takes or attempts to take more than the represented quantity of any commodity or service when as buyer he furnishes the weight or measure; or
(d) Sells, offers or exposes for sale adulterated or mislabeled commodities. ""Adulterated'' means varying from the standard of composition or quality prescribed by or pursuant to any statute providing criminal penalties for such variance, or set by established commercial usage. ""Mislabeled'' means varying from the standard of truth or disclosure in labeling prescribed by or pursuant to any statute providing criminal penalties for such variance, or set by established commercial usage; or
(e) Makes a false or misleading statement in any advertisement addressed to the public or to a substantial segment thereof for the purpose of promoting the purchase or sale of property or services.
II. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the defendant's conduct was not knowing or reckless.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
You highlighted it yourself there is nothing false or misleading in the empty box ad.

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A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wits and add drama to an otherwise dull day! -Calvin and Hobbes

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momto4+
Deck the Malls


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And I also took the original printout of the auction for the picture only to the district court and the superior courthouse (I have previously mentioned that my husband is a prosecutor and I have work/ed as an emergency dispatcher; court transcriber; matron; bailiff and other law enforcement jobs. I mention this only to show why I have access to courts.)I asked both prosecutors and defense attorneys and asked their interpretations. All said the same though this auction is deceptive there is no deception (as only lawyers can say) meaning that even though the part about it being a picture isnt until the end of a long and tedious description it is still in there CLEARLY written for anyone bothering to read till the end. All of them said the same thing in the end:Caveat Emptor

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A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wits and add drama to an otherwise dull day! -Calvin and Hobbes

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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There might not be deception, but is it misleading?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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StewPot
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I can see how someone might be fooled by the "box only" description. Many computer users call their case (with cpu, mobo, hdd, etc) a "box." So I can imagine someone might think "box only" means the xbox 360 console, with no games or controllers. To be completely ethical, I think the description should be more along the lines of "empty cardboard packing box only, no gaming system included."

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One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds.
-Frank Zappa

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Ulkomaalainen
Jingle Bell Hock


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YMMV widely here of course (and I am no legal expert anyway), depending on the country you live, but already the placement of the auction may be very important in the question whether something is misleading. If you look under "gaming systems" you do not expect an empty cardboard box.

In Germany I think, you would - as the buyer - always be able to say in this case "I did not think it was the cardboard box only". You would have to cover any costs the seller had, but not to actually buy the box. Unless the seller is thought to have placed this ad to deceive intentionally. (Here it would be important, though it'd be more difficult to prove, whether he wanted to deceive, than whether he actually did. In those cases given, unless it's thought of as a joke, this may most certainly be the case.) As a general rule: lawyers and judges dislike wise guys who go by the letter instead of the spirit of the law. Unless they're lawyers themselves maybe [Smile]

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Movie characters never make typing mistakes.

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momto4+
Deck the Malls


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It is misleading in that you can read the context differently than what is intended. Figuring nobody would actually sell a picture. However with all the "strange" auctions on Ebay ie: family selling themselves for labor,potato chip looks like Leno etc... Reading the whole description in an auction is a necessity.

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A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wits and add drama to an otherwise dull day! -Calvin and Hobbes

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