Now, I'd heard both sides of this myth before, but I've also heard another side that the Snopes article doesn't cover, namely that the advice against eating off the floor is itself a myth, based upon longstanding Western cultural hang-ups about cleanliness, and that eating dropped food is common practice - with no apparent ill effects, naturally - in certain non-Western cultures. In other words, according to this argument, the so-called "five-second rule" is indeed a myth, but for precisely the opposite reason.
Does this argument ring any bells with anyone else? It seems to me that both sides could be right in this case, for two reasons:
1) It's quite possible that advice against eating dropped food is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy - that is, that eating dropped food is dangerous precisely because we are warned not to do so, and therefore it is not done frequently enough for us, as individuals and as a population, to develop immunity to whatever diseases may be transmitted by doing so.
2) There is already a laundry list of human immunities and physiological tolerances that are shaped by cultural and societal norms. (Mexican residents can safely drink their own unboiled tap water but Americans and other foreigners traveling to Mexico can't, Westerners insist on Chinese food prepared w/o MSG even though the Chinese themselves claim to have used MSG for centuries with no ill effects, etc.) If it is indeed true that eating dropped food is commonplace in certain cultures, this would be just another item to add to the list.
Again, does this sound familiar? Any other thoughts?
posted
Hmmmmm - for years most kids have been eating food dropped on the floor, I know my 2 year old was eating a peanut butter sandwich the other day, and I suddenly remembered that I hadn't made her that particular sandwich for a few days.... she had hidden it in her toybox for munching on when she felt like it!
I have also found my children eating mud,snails, slugs and twigs in the garden (when they were toddlers!) with, I think, no ill effects. I think your theory is correct - we live in too much sanitisation these days. A happy balance is needed.
I find I often eat dropped biscuits (cookies) which may have been on the floor for much longer than the time specified..I don't know if it is harmful, I won't find out until I get some horrible disease - but I do know that both my mother and grandmother are great 'pinch of dirt' advocates - we all need a regular pinch of dirt in order to keep our immune system up to date.
posted
My boss, the kids and I were discussing this matter over supper last night. There was some dispute over whether or not Kylie should eat a dropped raw carrot. Talya cited the five-second rule, I mentioned the study debunking it, the Mom pointed out that if I'd been doing my job, the floor really shouldn't be all that dirty, and the agreement we reached was that food dropped on the regularly-cleaned kitchen floor was okay, as long as nothing germy (like raw egg, for instance) had been spilled on it since the last mopping - but food dropped outside, or on the floor of a busy mall where people regularly walk around in their outdoor shoes, was not to be eaten.
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Nonny the Amazing Wingless Bat: Talya cited the five-second rule, I mentioned the study debunking it, the Mom pointed out that if I'd been doing my job, the floor really shouldn't be all that dirty, and the agreement we reached was that food dropped on the regularly-cleaned kitchen floor was okay, as long as nothing germy (like raw egg, for instance) had been spilled on it since the last mopping - but food dropped outside, or on the floor of a busy mall where people regularly walk around in their outdoor shoes, was not to be eaten.
If you're referring to the study mentioned on the snopes page (which I learned about from this Seattle Times article), I'd like to say that the study actually supports the five-second rule in certain cases.
quote:"We did it several times," [doctoral candidate] Agle said. "The floors are clean. We did a bunch of areas: near vending machines, the library, cafeteria. There just weren't high numbers of bacteria on any floors."
That's probably because floors are dry, Agle added. Germs thrive in damp environments.
It hardly sounds like an exhaustive study, but it provides some evidence that in areas with at least some custodial effort applied, the risk of a dry food item picking up a dangerous number of microorganisms is small.
Of course, the study/article goes on to say that contaminated floors CAN infect food items in under five seconds. So, if you drop your food on the floor of a bathroom or slaughterhouse, forget it, 'cause man, it's gone.
So, "when in doubt, throw it out" still stands, but the degree of doubt in a lot of everyday cases can be low enough that the five-second rule is valid.
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quote:Originally posted by There's something UN the WINg...: So, "when in doubt, throw it out" still stands, but the degree of doubt in a lot of everyday cases can be low enough that the five-second rule is valid.
How so? I don't recall reading anything that said food could be okay if picked up in five seconds, but would be contaminated if it was on the floor longer. It's either going to be contaminated by the floor or not, five seconds makes zilch difference.
Posts: 698 | From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Aureal: How so? I don't recall reading anything that said food could be okay if picked up in five seconds, but would be contaminated if it was on the floor longer. It's either going to be contaminated by the floor or not, five seconds makes zilch difference.
You are, by all means, free to follow a 5-hour rule, if you so choose. I, like many people I'm sure, have a precision timepiece with a five-second countdown on it that I start everytime I hear a food item hit the floor. If I can't manage to scoop up the morsal before the timer hits 0.00000, I go into lock-down mode and start a level-3 decon of my self and my immediate surroundings. It's the only way to be sure.
quote:Originally posted by Jaime Vargas Sanchez: Paul, is your signature a reference to the Twilight Zone movie?
Yes, as are my username and my From: line.
Paul "submitted for your approval" Unwin
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Momanon
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Isn't it a good thing for germs to get in your body sometimes? You know, like for practice? If we lived in a totally sanitized world, one tiny bacterium would take us all out. It's kinda like what George Carlin said in his stand-up about swimming in New York water when he was a kid. He doesn't get sick now because his body has had the practice. Of course, none of this is based on anything scientific, but it seems to work for me. I do, however, brush off the cookie before I eat it.
quote:Originally posted by There's something UN the WINg...: You are, by all means, free to follow a 5-hour rule, if you so choose. I, like many people I'm sure, have a precision timepiece with a five-second countdown on it that I start everytime I hear a food item hit the floor. If I can't manage to scoop up the morsal before the timer hits 0.00000, I go into lock-down mode and start a level-3 decon of my self and my immediate surroundings. It's the only way to be sure.
Would you care to point out where it said that the amount of time the food was on the floor made a difference, instead of being sarcastic?
Let's see if I can spell this out a little more clearly. If I understand right, the 'five second rule' claims that food that has been dropped is not okay to eat, unless you picked it up before five seconds have passed, in which case it is fine. The research indicated that food that has been dropped can become contaminated by a contaminated floor instantly; however if the floor is not contaminated the food can't become contaminated either. The only way I can see to say that this supports the five second rule is if the five second part of it is completely ignored, and we just go with the general idea that food might actually be okay to eat after being dropped, which seems rather misleading to me.
Posts: 698 | From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Aureal: Let's see if I can spell this out a little more clearly. If I understand right, the 'five second rule' claims that food that has been dropped is not okay to eat, unless you picked it up before five seconds have passed, in which case it is fine. The research indicated that food that has been dropped can become contaminated by a contaminated floor instantly; however if the floor is not contaminated the food can't become contaminated either. The only way I can see to say that this supports the five second rule is if the five second part of it is completely ignored, and we just go with the general idea that food might actually be okay to eat after being dropped, which seems rather misleading to me.
For the luvva...
The point I was trying to show by making a big deal out of this is that you're making a big deal out of this. The "five second rule" isn't a "rule," it's a not-so-snappy comeback to pull on food nazis who harass you for eating the popcorn you just dropped on the floor. "Eww, you're going to eat that?" "Ah, get over it. Five-second rule!" The point is that the food landed on the floor in plain site and wasn't there for an appreciable amount of time. Five seconds probably isn't universal. It's probably 10, 20 or thirty-seconds depending on where you are. But I'd bet nobody has a three-hour rule. For a few seconds, you can keep your eye on the food and make sure it's not stepped on, sniffed by the dog, or mixed up with a piece of food dropped sometime earlier....
I can't believe I'm explaining this.
It validates the five-second rule, because it validates any rule of a reasonable amount of time.
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Ligeiali
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quote:Originally posted by Momanon: Isn't it a good thing for germs to get in your body sometimes? You know, like for practice? If we lived in a totally sanitized world, one tiny bacterium would take us all out. It's kinda like what George Carlin said in his stand-up about swimming in New York water when he was a kid. He doesn't get sick now because his body has had the practice. Of course, none of this is based on anything scientific, but it seems to work for me. I do, however, brush off the cookie before I eat it.
Momanon
I agree with you Isn't that have a lot of vaccines work? The shot is actually the virus itself in either a dead or weakened state?
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siwucha
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Also agree - I also hate all these new 'kills all germs on the floor' cleaners and the like - ooh, I've breathed, the floor is totally covered in teensy little microbes again. So what? Most bacteria and the like on your kitchen floor are unlikely to cause serious harm (unless you have festering food down there for a handy night time snack, or your kitchen is infested with rats or something). Eating an undercooked chicken would be far more dangerous. Having just said that however, I work on the totally premise that anything thats dry (biscuits and the like) dropped on the kitchen floor is fair game. Anything wet or sticky (toast jam side down for example) will have more dirt on it and therefore isn't safe.
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she had hidden it in her toybox for munching on when she felt like it!
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Isn't that have a lot of vaccines work? The shot is actually the virus itself in either a dead or weakened state?
