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snopes
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Comment: This "rumor" isn't so new, but I've heard it enough times from a
variety of people that I suspect it is an urban legend. The story
generally goes like this:

A driver stopped his car for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and waved to the
pedestrian indicating that the walker was free to cross. After the
pedestrian walked in front of this considerate driver, another driver, in
the adjoining lane, barreled on through the crosswalk without stopping and
hit the pedestrian, killing him. The first driver, who indicated that it
was safe to cross by waving the pedestrian through, was found liable for
(or charged with) the death of the pedestrian, since he/she had indicated
that it was safe.

So...my question is whether the above scenario actually took place - in
other words, that one can be found liable for the death of a pedestrian if
one indicates that it is safe to cross, but it is not. As a resident of
the Boston area, where the game of "chicken" is a blood sport between
pedestrians and drivers, I would NEVER assume that anyone other than the
person motioning to me has any intention of stopping for me if I'm in a
crosswalk. Not unless I was suicidal...

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
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I don't know the answer to the question, but it often annoys me to be "waved across" the road by a driver. Often, drivers can't see (or don't care about) other traffic on the road that a pedestrian needs to look out for. Then the driver acts annoyed if you don't take up his "generous" offer. Or I get confused by drivers who slow down as they approach you but inch towards you as you step into the road. Just obey the rules of the road! It makes things more predictable!

I don't know what the rules for American crosswalks are - are they just to provide designated crossing places for pedestrians, or do pedestrians actually have a right of way, as on zebra crossings in the UK?

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Black Belt and Socks
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quote:

I don't know what the rules for American crosswalks are - are they just to provide designated crossing places for pedestrians, or do pedestrians actually have a right of way, as on zebra crossings in the UK?

Can't speak for all of America, or even North America, but around here, crosswalks are designated areas where pedestrians have the right of way. Failure to yield to pedestrians in a cross walk is a pretty serious offense:

27-51-1202. Pedestrians' right-of-way in crosswalks.

(a) Where traffic-control signals are not in place or in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, slowing down or stopping if need be to yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this subchapter.
(b) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.


History. Acts 1937, No. 300, § 76; Pope's Dig., § 6734; A.S.A. 1947, § 75-627.


BB&S

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Four Kitties
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Around here, pedestrians have the right-of-way (1) if there is a crosswalk, *and* if there is no other traffic signal. Meaning, you don't have the right-of-way if you're crossing against the light, you NFBSKing moron!

Four "Boston driver since 1984" Kitties

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Dogwater
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[Mini-Rant]Having the Right-of-way as a pedestrian DOES NOT mean you can walk blindly into the street from between 2 parked cars, or stroll slowly across the parking lot without so much as a glance to watch for oncoming cars. Or, for that matter, walk down the center aisle of the lot while cars back up behind you. Also, don't step off the curb in front of a car as it starts to roll foward in a game of chicken, you stupid NFBSKer[End Mini-Rant]

I don't know the law either, but let's present it this way...A person tells you a gun isn't loaded, so you pick it up, look down the barrel and pull the trigger....Ooops, your buddy was wrong and now you are sans one very important head. Whose liabel here? The guy who said it wasn't loaded, or you for not excersising due care to check for yourself?

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NeuroKev
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The law may not be the point in a case like this. Liability usually indicates that there was a civil suit, in which case, the jury will assign liability based on their interpretation of the facts presented.

In Sarasota, FL, there are signs posted that the driver of a vehicle faces a $75 dollar fine if they fail to yeild to a pedestrian. And given the number of tourists in the area, this can be a very frustrating situation.

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damsa
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quote:
Originally posted by NeuroKev:
The law may not be the point in a case like this. Liability usually indicates that there was a civil suit, in which case, the jury will assign liability based on their interpretation of the facts presented.

In Sarasota, FL, there are signs posted that the driver of a vehicle faces a $75 dollar fine if they fail to yeild to a pedestrian. And given the number of tourists in the area, this can be a very frustrating situation.

This was how I was taught on how to be a personal injury lawyer.

First you need to find harm. In this case pretty easy, you have a dead pedestrian. Since the dead person can't sue, depending on location, a wife or son may be able to sue.

So this wife sees a lawyer and a dead husband. So who can she sue?

She can sue the driver of the first car or the driver of the second, the owner of the cars (ie. if it was a business owned car, you can sue the business), city officials for not providing safer crosswalks, although city officals may be exempt because of government immunity.

So let's say she sues all everyone and anyone. Each defendant will likely place the blame on somebody. The car actually hitting the pedestrian would likely be held liable if there was no other car waiving the pedestrian through. Because, its hard to argue liability when you hit a pedestrian. However in this case there was another car, that waived the pedestrian through while not checking to make sure there were other cars. Hence this person may be found negligent by the jury. And in some states, the one with more at fault, or more negligence gets all the liability and if the jury believes that the second car truly did not see the pedestrian when she hit her the car number one holds the bag. Other states split liability percentage wise between the two cars.

Also remember that even though the first driver was liable, the insurance company most likely paid for everything. So this tale seems like a wrongful man doing the right thing gets screwed. Its more of three big insurance companies battling it in court.

Another story similar to this one is a nice person giving a ride to an old lady. One day this old lady offers to give him some money and the man takes it to be polite. One day, the man gets in to a car accident. The woman sues the man under the theory that he was a taxi and should've warned her about seatbelts according to state or city law regulating taxis.

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Die Capacitrix
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As an aside, if I see a car, which is travelling in the opposite direction, stop at a crosswalk, I will normally slow down, because it is probable that the car stopped for a reason. Prudent pedestrians will wait until both sides are stopped/clear. Right of way doesn't mean much when you're injured or dead.

And here there are a lot of marked crossings without lights, and may not even be at an intersection. Pedestrians definitely have the right of way at the crossings without lights. I've been told that drivers who do not give way to pedestrians can be fined/punished even if there is no injury.

IIRC, if there is a marked crossing within so many meters, and the pedestrian crosses the street somewhere other than the crossing, they are considered to be at fault.

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damsa
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quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
As an aside, if I see a car, which is travelling in the opposite direction, stop at a crosswalk, I will normally slow down, because it is probable that the car stopped for a reason. Prudent pedestrians will wait until both sides are stopped/clear. Right of way doesn't mean much when you're injured or dead.

And here there are a lot of marked crossings without lights, and may not even be at an intersection. Pedestrians definitely have the right of way at the crossings without lights. I've been told that drivers who do not give way to pedestrians can be fined/punished even if there is no injury.

IIRC, if there is a marked crossing within so many meters, and the pedestrian crosses the street somewhere other than the crossing, they are considered to be at fault.

In most states, if a car hits a pedestrian even if the pedestrian was negligent and the driver of the car had no fault. Liability will rest on the driver, coz the driver has insurance and pedristrians don't. Similarly, it applies to bicycles, and sometimes even motorcycles in certain states.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Snopes.

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'59 Ford Wheelman
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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
Around here, pedestrians have the right-of-way (1) if there is a crosswalk, *and* if there is no other traffic signal. Meaning, you don't have the right-of-way if you're crossing against the light, you NFBSKing moron!

Four "Boston driver since 1984" Kitties

Hear, hear! You also don't have the right of way when you cross in the middle of the block and definatly stare down the cars coming at you. Unless your ass can defelect a car bumper I suggest you wait....
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Chimera
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Question: (sorry for the slight hijack) does anyone know the laws conserning a pedestrian crossing at a crosswalk are for NC?

At my son's school there is a well marked crosswalk but cars never yield to pedestrians. I hate waiting sometimes 5 minutes for an openning where I can hurry across the road. I'm almost tempted to just step out into traffic (ok, the cars aren't going very fast the speed limit is only 25 mph and there are often a bunch of cars stopped at the sides of the roads that slow motorist down... also some start from a stopped position at a stop sign beside the main road and crosswalk that will gun it when there's an open space, free of other cars.). I seriously doubt I'd be killed (unless I got trapped under the care and the person didn't realize they hit me and keep going). But I'm so annoyed that it would almost be worth a couple broken bones (if someone else paid the doctor's bills) to bring this problem to peoples attention. I just think failing to yeild at a crosswalk in a school zone is horrible.

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Die Capacitrix
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I believe, that in Switzerland, in the OP's situation, only the driver who actually hit the pedestrian would be liable.

quote:
Originally posted by damsa:
quote:
Originally posted by Die Capacitrix:
IIRC, if there is a marked crossing within so many meters, and the pedestrian crosses the street somewhere other than the crossing, they are considered to be at fault.

In most states, if a car hits a pedestrian even if the pedestrian was negligent and the driver of the car had no fault. Liability will rest on the driver, coz the driver has insurance and pedristrians don't. Similarly, it applies to bicycles, and sometimes even motorcycles in certain states.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Snopes.

In Switzerland, all residents have medical insurance. Period. I have not been able to explain to my Swiss co-workers why there are people in the U.S. without medial insurance. Here it is a right (insurance companies must insure everyone) and a requirement.

In regards to a pedestrian being out of the crosswalk when injured (by a car or bicycle), by the pedestrian being out of the crossing area, the driver will not be penalized to the same extent they would be if the pedestrian was in the crosswalk. (Theoretically, of course, as I am not an expert on Swiss road laws.)

In regard to bicycles, it is required for all bicycles to have and display an insurance sticker. This sticker (which only costs 5.50 CHF per year) provides a maximum of 2,000,00 CHF coverage.

Anecdote. My husband was riding his bike in a marked bike path when someone pulled into a parking space right in front of him, requiring my husband to go off-road a bit. The driver made certain that he was okay and apologized profusely. He knew that if there was any injury, he (the driver) was definitely at fault. If this had happened in the U.S., the driver probably would have something else to say.

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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies
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quote:
Originally posted by Chimera:
Question: (sorry for the slight hijack) does anyone know the laws conserning a pedestrian crossing at a crosswalk are for NC?

Section 20-173. Pedestrians' right-of-way at crosswalks.
(a) Where traffic-control signals are not in place or in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any unmarked crosswalk at or near an intersection, except as otherwise provided in part 11 of this Article.
(b) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.
(c) The driver of a vehicle emerging from or entering an alley, building entrance, private road or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian, or person riding a bicycle, approaching on any sidewalk or walkway extending across such alley, building entrance, road or driveway. (1937, c. 407, s. 134; 1973, c. 1330, s. 32.)

North Carolina Pedestrian Laws

James Powell

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pocamumu
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There is a crosswalk just by my place that I need to cross often because I'm carless (until tommorrow mwahahah!). I am so SICK of drivers not stopping for me. I can understand if it wasn't obvious that I was trying to cross, but I will often step out onto the street, be looking both ways, and even at times pointing across the street. I'd say that's as obvious as it gets.

From a pedestrians point of view, I do NOT trust drivers. I don't trust them if they're coming down the street, if one motions that it's safe, or if they are slowing down. I make full eye contact with the drivers that I'm crossing in fron of so I know they know I'm there.

So, in terms of the OP, I think the pedestrian is an idiot and at fault with the driver who hit him. The guy that motioned was just trying to be nice, the pedestrian still should have checked to make sure. That's just in my opinion.

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CD
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Well, just yesterday, I totaled my car because I was driving in the right lane of a street, the guy in the left was stopped to make a left turn and then waved on the guy coming the other way indicating to him it was safe for him to turn left. Turn left right into my way. My car was totaled as I broad-sided him (when he appeared in front of me he was about 10 feet away) his car was totaled (no one was hurt) and the Asshat who waved him through just kept along his merry little way.
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pocamumu
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quote:
Originally posted by CD:
Well, just yesterday, I totaled my car because I was driving in the right lane of a street, the guy in the left was stopped to make a left turn and then waved on the guy coming the other way indicating to him it was safe for him to turn left. Turn left right into my way. My car was totaled as I broad-sided him (when he appeared in front of me he was about 10 feet away) his car was totaled (no one was hurt) and the Asshat who waved him through just kept along his merry little way.

Oh crap. I'm glad everyone is ok. What does insurance have to say about it? Who's at fault?
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Finite Fourier Alchemy
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Could be this?

quote:
Originally posted by CD:
Well, just yesterday, I totaled my car because I was driving in the right lane of a street, the guy in the left was stopped to make a left turn and then waved on the guy coming the other way indicating to him it was safe for him to turn left. Turn left right into my way. My car was totaled as I broad-sided him (when he appeared in front of me he was about 10 feet away) his car was totaled (no one was hurt) and the Asshat who waved him through just kept along his merry little way.

Asshat indeed, but a driver who relies on a third party to assess a traffic situation instead of his own eyes is an accident waiting to happen. If you drive across a spot where you cannot see approaching traffic, you are doing something exceptionally dangerous.

Who's worse, the asshat or the moron who trusts asshats?

-A

Edit: I think the case relating to the OP is Bell v. Giamarco, 50 Ohio App. 3d 61, 553 N.E.2d 694 (1988), in which a 5-year-old is waved across a street and tragically killed by a car in the next lane. So far as I can tell, the driver waving her across was found liable, but I'm not sure and I can't find a case summary easily.

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Chewie
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In my world, 'the wave' means 'I will not intentionally harm you', not 'you have my guarantee that everything is safe'. It's still my responsibility to ensure my own safety before taking action. Courtesy is appreciated, but we have rules for a reason. If everyone simply 'waved' their right of way on the road when they felt it was more convenient for the other person, bodies and mangled chassis would litter the streets.
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CD
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quote:
Originally posted by pocamumu:
quote:
Originally posted by CD:
Well, just yesterday, I totaled my car because I was driving in the right lane of a street, the guy in the left was stopped to make a left turn and then waved on the guy coming the other way indicating to him it was safe for him to turn left. Turn left right into my way. My car was totaled as I broad-sided him (when he appeared in front of me he was about 10 feet away) his car was totaled (no one was hurt) and the Asshat who waved him through just kept along his merry little way.

Oh crap. I'm glad everyone is ok. What does insurance have to say about it? Who's at fault?
Getting the insurance companies in Massachusetts to actually fufill thier purpose is as easy as turning water into wine. I finally got ahold of the other guy's ins. adjuster assigned to the case (after 3 days of leaving messages, my last message stating that if they didn't return my call that day, the next day I would leave a message every hour until I heard from them, then I was getting a lawyer). They call me back and immediately try to brush me off again "We don't have our guys side of the story yet, yada yada blah blah etc." I say "Wait!" I am holding a copy of the police report in my hands (which not only cites me as having the right-of-way, but cites other driver as one at-fault) I will fax it as we speak give me a fax number. Hmm this is a long story that is turning into a rant. I finally got a rental car yesterday.
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CD
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quote:
Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:


Who's worse, the asshat or the moron who trusts asshats?

-A


Well, the kicker is that when the moron who trusted the asshat pulled in front of me, I locked up my brakes and that apparently startled moron who then stopped and watched me plow into him (think deer in the headlights). If he had seen me and floored it, we would have missed each other. Witnesses who stopped also noticed this.
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Don Enrico
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On the OP question: This is the case in Germany. If you (being the driver) wave to a pedestrian to cross the road, you take some responsibility for the crossing to be safe. If he gets hit by another car, you will be found liable to a certain degree.

This is why I was told in driving school never to wave but to look directly at the pedestrian indicating "I have seen you, I won't go before you crossed". This way, I only take responsibility for my actions, not for anyone else's.

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Die Capacitrix
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Today I noticed a car travelling in the opposite direction stop at a crosswalk, so I slowed down to also stop for the pedestrian. The pedestrian NEVER looked in my direction - she only looked to her left. Even if someone is in a crosswalk, to not look both ways is risky.

The kindergarteners will normally not cross until both drivers have stopped. Sometimes not even until both drivers have acknowledged them (put hand up or flash brights). They are very careful. The older children (and adults) are not always so careful.

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Gale
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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
I don't know the answer to the question, but it often annoys me to be "waved across" the road by a driver. Often, drivers can't see (or don't care about) other traffic on the road that a pedestrian needs to look out for. Then the driver acts annoyed if you don't take up his "generous" offer. Or I get confused by drivers who slow down as they approach you but inch towards you as you step into the road. Just obey the rules of the road! It makes things more predictable!

I don't know what the rules for American crosswalks are - are they just to provide designated crossing places for pedestrians, or do pedestrians actually have a right of way, as on zebra crossings in the UK?

You’re singing my song. Yes, I realize that the driver of car A is trying to be polite and nice and let me across, but I’m no dummy. Behind nice guy in the Honda is an octogenarian peering over the wheel of a 1972 Lincoln Land Barge, a Britney wannabe talking on her cell phone, a teenager who’s had his license for five minutes, and a goat roper in a Dodge RAM who thinks everyone who walks any further than the end of their driveway is a homeless bum and ought to be run over for the good of God & country, amen. While I appreciate the kind thought, I’ll stay up here on the curb until I’m pretty sure I won’t be impaled by the Impala. Not to mention that it’s just plain dangerous for the driver of the car anyway.

I have to cross a T intersection every morning that’s pretty hazardous. Every once in awhile, I’ll see some gomer who is going to turn left the second he gets a chance whether I’m crossing with right of way or not. I’ve been known to hold up my hand to indicate that I’m going across and he’d better not turn yet. Occasionally, I get the finger or a horn or some squealing brakes. It’s my right of way (I'm talking about crossing with the little walk man) and I *am* going to assert myself. I am not, however, so foolish as to try and do battle with them one on one. I prefer hustling back to my curb rather than being right, but in the hospital.

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notacoolname
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Gayle, I so agree with you! I hate hate hate hate when cars won't stop when I have the light. I want to say "so you think its ok to kill someone to saveyourself 5 minutes", but I haven't memorized that phrase in Korean.
I get very mad at the cross-walk near my school.

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tip and fall
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*rant for me* I think that there should be a law that says if you get hit by a car when jaywalking, you have no right to sue, no right to claim damages, etc. We have crosswalks for a reason. If you decide to jaywalk, cars owe you nothing, you do not have the right of way, blah blah blah. You jaywalk at your own risk. I mean, I've jaywalked before; before I got my driver's license, I took the bus everywhere and had to cross the street to get to the nearest bus stop. If I wanted to use a crosswalk, I'd have to walk uphills a ways, so I never bothered and just jaywalked for convenience. But I always made sure that there were NO cars in my line of vision (which was unobstructed) before crossing, and then I ran instead of just taking my sweet time like so many others. I certainly never crossed when cars were zooming past left and right.

The Rebecca Gayheart case is a perfect example of why jaywalking is stupid and also why drivers should not play the "nice folks" and just wave people through. For those of you unfamiliar with the case, a 9-year-old kid was on his way home when he had to cross the street. Some stupid driver decided to play nice and stopped to let him pass...except they weren't at a crosswalk (there was a crosswalk nearby, I heard). Rebecca Gayheart came up behind the driver, who was stopped in the middle of the street, and did what most drivers do when coming up to a stalled car...she passed it. She didn't see the kid, and ended up killing him.

The parents decided to sue...wtf? It wasn't her fault, the kid was jaywalking for one thing (now, since he was only 9 years old I don't have a he-deserved-what-he-got feeling like I would for adults...although I do lay blame on the parents for not having taught him by that age that it is not safe to cross the street except at crosswalks), and it was that other idiot of a driver who waved him by. (The prosecution said that Gayheart had been talking on her cell, but I think that's been disputed).

Plus...at least here in California, the way crossing works is like this: you have that sign, the one that says to cross or don't cross. Basically, the okay-to-cross light comes on only for a few seconds, and then it switches to a blinking version of the don't-cross sign. This means that anybody who is already on the crosswalk may finish crossing, and that everybody else must wait for the next time. That is, it is NOT an invitation for those dumb pedestrians who decide to just rush out on to the crosswalk when the sign is blinking. It's annoying because it makes the line of pedestrians neverending, it seems.

Now, a rant from the pedestrian side...I follow the rules of the road. I don't start crossing when the crosswalk sign is blinking. It pisses me off when drivers act annoyed because I have the right of way. This is a very immature thing to do, but I'll walk more slowly in front of cars whose drivers seem to be irritated at the very thought of waiting a minute before they can drive through. The drivers who want to make right turns are the worst...yes, I have the right of way, jackass, you're supposed to look to see if anybody is crossing before you make the turn.

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by tip and fall:
Now, a rant from the pedestrian side...I follow the rules of the road. I don't start crossing when the crosswalk sign is blinking. It pisses me off when drivers act annoyed because I have the right of way. This is a very immature thing to do, but I'll walk more slowly in front of cars whose drivers seem to be irritated at the very thought of waiting a minute before they can drive through. The drivers who want to make right turns are the worst...yes, I have the right of way, jackass, you're supposed to look to see if anybody is crossing before you make the turn.

I have the same problem when I cross the street in front of the supermarket down the street. The pedestrian light (walk/don't walk) is saying "walk" while the oncoming traffic is facing a red light, so you'd think it would be safe to cross the street, but then somebody takes a "right on red" to pull into the supermarket parking lot. Yes, you may take a "right on red" (unless posted otherwise), but you have to (1) come to a full stop first, and (2) stop for any pedestrians. And I'll admit, if somebody either (1) almost hits me, (2) gives me a dirty look, or (3) honks the horn in anger, I won't hurry up to cross the street for you.

And then there's the considerate driver who stops so a pedestrian can cross the street, followed by the rude driver right behind honking the horn in anger because the other person stopped for the pedestrian.

Thanks.

Bill

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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So if people look iritated they must be punished for it? Have you ever been late for something, and held up along the way, be it by train, traffic, or a pedestrian? You get irritated, big deal it isn't hurting anyone, so long as you keep it to yourself. But should you then be punished because a self centered pedestrian thinks they should only get smiles and laughs when they cross the street? Can we get more juvenille in our behavier? 'Cause that's just what a middle school kid would do.

As for dirty looks from drivers, here's a clue, watch where you are going rather than staring down the drivers. Yesterday, I ran into Subway at about 2:00 to get some cookies. There was a long line of people waiting for to order, specify and describe the sandwhich they wanted. There was also a cashier waiting for the sandwich makers. I stepped up to the cashier and order my cookies directly. I got a few dirty looks, but do you know what I did? I allowed the cashier to pick which types of cookies based on what was easiest, paid with exact change, that I had ready, and scooted out as fast as I could. It wasn't really so hard and the dirty looks didn't scar me or anything.

Beach...unless they have lasers for eyes, 'cause that stings a bit...Life!

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Red Squirrel
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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
I don't know the answer to the question, but it often annoys me to be "waved across" the road by a driver. Often, drivers can't see (or don't care about) other traffic on the road that a pedestrian needs to look out for. Then the driver acts annoyed if you don't take up his "generous" offer. Or I get confused by drivers who slow down as they approach you but inch towards you as you step into the road. Just obey the rules of the road! It makes things more predictable!

I've had cars stop for me on zebra crossings only for the impatiant loser behind to pull out and drive at full acceleration around the other car and in front of me (very stupid thing to do IMO not only because they could wind up in a lot of trouble if they hit me but it's very possible I might wisk my camera phone out and put their stupidity on the net for the whole wold to see).

Although I am very self-rightous when it comes to crossing zebra crossings. If I see a car not stopping for me to cross I've been known to stand there in its way for a few seconds with a look that would wither spring directed at them.

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
So if people look iritated they must be punished for it? Have you ever been late for something, and held up along the way, be it by train, traffic, or a pedestrian? You get irritated, big deal it isn't hurting anyone, so long as you keep it to yourself. But should you then be punished because a self centered pedestrian thinks they should only get smiles and laughs when they cross the street? Can we get more juvenille in our behavier? 'Cause that's just what a middle school kid would do.

It's not necessarily "right" but it's only human nature. If people are nice you want to cooperate; if they're rude, you'll say to yourself, "Why should I cooperate with this person?" If you almost get hit by a car because some impatient person is in such a hurry to get to the supermarket that they can't wait three seconds to come to a full stop before taking a right into the parking lot, you're not going to say to yourself, "Oh, how selfish I am, slowing down this person buying their groceries. I've got to hurry across the street so they can get in the parking lot." To me it's the driver who doesn't know the rules of the road, or doesn't care about them, who's acting juvenile.

And if you almost get hit by a car, you're going to be a little surprised, at the very least, and that'll slow you down for a second.

If the person does stop in plenty of time, chances are I wouldn't even notice their facial expression, so I wouldn't get irritated back.

Thanks.

Bill

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
So if people look iritated they must be punished for it? Have you ever been late for something, and held up along the way, be it by train, traffic, or a pedestrian? You get irritated, big deal it isn't hurting anyone, so long as you keep it to yourself. But should you then be punished because a self centered pedestrian thinks they should only get smiles and laughs when they cross the street? Can we get more juvenille in our behavier? 'Cause that's just what a middle school kid would do.

It's not necessarily "right" but it's only human nature. If people are nice you want to cooperate; if they're rude, you'll say to yourself, "Why should I cooperate with this person?" If you almost get hit by a car because some impatient person is in such a hurry to get to the supermarket that they can't wait three seconds to come to a full stop before taking a right into the parking lot, you're not going to say to yourself, "Oh, how selfish I am, slowing down this person buying their groceries. I've got to hurry across the street so they can get in the parking lot." To me it's the driver who doesn't know the rules of the road, or doesn't care about them, who's acting juvenile.

And if you almost get hit by a car, you're going to be a little surprised, at the very least, and that'll slow you down for a second.

If the person does stop in plenty of time, chances are I wouldn't even notice their facial expression, so I wouldn't get irritated back.

Thanks.

Bill

I was refering just to the comments about drivers looking iritated. Though if a driver is actually getting agressive with his car toward you, I'd question the wisdom of slowing down just as much.

Beach...maybe putting your life and risk is worth making a point though...Life!

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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies
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quote:
Originally posted by tip and fall:
The Rebecca Gayheart case is a perfect example of why jaywalking is stupid and also why drivers should not play the "nice folks" and just wave people through. For those of you unfamiliar with the case, a 9-year-old kid was on his way home when he had to cross the street. Some stupid driver decided to play nice and stopped to let him pass...except they weren't at a crosswalk (there was a crosswalk nearby, I heard). Rebecca Gayheart came up behind the driver, who was stopped in the middle of the street, and did what most drivers do when coming up to a stalled car...she passed it. She didn't see the kid, and ended up killing him.

No, it is not even a 'good' example.

"According to the police report, the boy lived in the area and was walking home from school. He crossed the street about 160 feet from the nearest crosswalk.

While several cars stopped to let him go, Gayheart allegedly swerved around the traffic and into a two-way left-turn lane, but failed to see the boy. Ramirez said that at least four witnesses reported her to be driving about 40 mph when her jeep ran into Cruz."

1) SEVERAL cars were stopped.
2) A two-way left turn lane is NOT a passing lane.

The attorney for the city agreed:

"It's based on the facts as they are presented and subsequent investigation that it appears there was criminal negligence in her driving," Deputy City Attorney Deborah Ramirez told E! Online.
Gayheart Faces Manslaughter Charge

She did not argue too strenuously against the accusation:

"The visibly shaken actress, who was facing up to a year in county jail, pleaded no contest in a Los Angeles courtroom Tuesday to a misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter charge.

In exchange for her plea, she was sentenced to three years' probation, a one-year suspension of her license, a $2,800 fine and a whopping 750 hours of community service. She was also ordered to make a public-service announcement."
Gayheart Sentenced for Manslaughter

James Powell

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tip and fall
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quote:
She did not argue too strenuously against the accusation:
Well, obviously she was feeling guilty about hitting the kid. Most of us would feel the same even if we weren't at fault. That doesn't say anything as to whether or not my example is valid. If I feel guilty about something even though it isn't my fault, I'm going to take the punishment dished out.

ETA: Technically, a judge or jury did not FIND Gayheart guilty. She pleaded no contest because, obviously, she herself felt guilty about what happened. So...no dice there, either.

In any case, conceding the point that the left lane is not a passing lane...the driver who initially stopped (and saying that several cars had stopped for the kid is also not reason for saying, "Well, she should have stopped then, too...") should never have done so. What, did he figure he'd score a few points on the nice-o-meter by letting the kid jaywalk a mere 50 yards from a stupid crosswalk?

I know kids are supposed to be blameless and innocent in everything...but at least an equal amount of fault has to be on the kid for jaywalking in the first place. And at least some blame on the stupid drivers who decided to be nice and let him pass.

Next time you see a kid trying to weave his way across a busy street, honk your horn, scare the living daylights out of him, so that next time he knows to use the crosswalk.

As far as irritated looks go. Maybe that wasn't the best choice of words for me, I should have said it's more like when they're acting irritated (because really, I can't see that well and read faces well enough to know when someone's irritated). I didn't want it to seem like I was stepping out in front of cars when they're zooming by. But really I'm talking about those cars who inch forward as well. I'm following the rules of the road, it's not like I suddenly rush out when the Don't Walk sign is on. It may be a petty thing to do but if you think you can rush me by pushing your car forward in an attempt to "hurry" me along, you've got another think (thing? think?) coming. Self-centered pedestrians? I'm pretty sure that the number of self-centered motorists either equal or go beyond the number of self-centered pedestrians.

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Keeper of the Mad Bunnies
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quote:
Originally posted by tip and fall:
In any case, conceding the point that the left lane is not a passing lane...the driver who initially stopped (and saying that several cars had stopped for the kid is also not reason for saying, "Well, she should have stopped then, too...") should never have done so. What, did he figure he'd score a few points on the nice-o-meter by letting the kid jaywalk a mere 50 yards from a stupid crosswalk?

Do you drive? If so, remind me to get off of the road when you are around!

Think again - SEVERAL CARS are stopped. She went into a LEFT TURN ONLY lane. This means that she pulled into a non-traffic lane and passed several stopped cars. That in and of itself is a MAJOR violation of traffic laws. Why the vehicles were stopped is irrelevant!

BTW - Go out to the 50 yard line of a football field to get a good feeling for just how far that distance is, especially to a child. I know adults that will idle their cars in a parking lot to keep from walking half of that distance.

The actions of the first person to stop is not the question in your using this as an example against such actions.

For the record - we stop for animals crossing the road around here. Seems the critters just don't understand the concept of crosswalks! If that had been a deer, would the drivers who stopped be in the wrong? Would it excuse the slaughter of the deer in the subsequent accident?

James Powell

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Black Belt and Socks:
Can't speak for all of America, or even North America, but around here, crosswalks are designated areas where pedestrians have the right of way. Failure to yield to pedestrians in a cross walk is a pretty serious offense:

27-51-1202. Pedestrians' right-of-way in crosswalks.

(a) Where traffic-control signals are not in place or in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, slowing down or stopping if need be to yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this subchapter.
(b) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.


History. Acts 1937, No. 300, § 76; Pope's Dig., § 6734; A.S.A. 1947, § 75-627.


BB&S

Where is "Around Here"? You're clearly quoting a state statute (vs. U.S. Federal, or local ordinance, or state or federal regulation), but which state is it?

Seaboe

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