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Author Topic: Traffic Stops and Passenger IDs
j38u5
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by j38u5:
"Probable Cause" in todays world can mean anything. With all the terrorism threats going on a cop can pretty much make up anything he wants to, and any court will probably back him. Besides, it's what they do, there great at it, and any cop can make it hard for you to know where volunteering ends and manditory begins.
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You left out the black helicopters and the vast right ring conspiracy parts. And then there is area 51.

Are you trying to say that terrorist theats are conspiracy theories?

My point was that with the rising security of the US government, more and more individual rights are dissapearing, and the definition of probable cause is becoming broader. I wouldn't be supprised if congress made it manditory to carry and produce ID to a police officer on request. I realize that it is against our constitution, but the term "National Security" is being thrown around so much that our constitution is starting to come second.

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Vesta
We Three Blings


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quote:
So here's a question then: If an officer asks to see your ID if you're a passenger, and you don't feel you should have to (or don't have ID, or whatever), what's a good way to respond?

I would reckon that there is no good way to respond that doesn't make you look like you've something to hide. But I suppose you could try.

Hijack: I'd like to take a moment to thank whatever AZ cop promplty responded to my call last night about a bunch of kids causing trouble in street at about 2:30 am. Even though I calle da non emergency you guys were here in like 2 minutes flat. Makes me feel a lot safer when DH is working late. [Smile] Keep up the good work. End Hijack.

Vesta(NFBSKing kids....)

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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I forgot about that case, and I believe it was pretty recent, last few months anyways. 28-1595 A states when a driver must produce ID, 28-1595 B states what is valid for a driver's ID, and 28-1595 C states when a passenger must produce ID. I imagine this means a change in the law in the near future, to either add a part D to state what a valid ID for passenger is, or changing B to include both driver and passenger. Not too big a deal, but still something that needs to be addressed soon.

quote:
That's indicates that any violation of Title 28 (which is a lot of legistaltion) is cause under 1595(c). This makes the law less recursive.

Not sure what you mean.


quote:
a cop can pretty much make up anything he wants to, and any court will probably back him.
Yeah, we all just make up stuff because we don't really care about the truth, and we don't care if they are innocent or guilty just as long as someone goes to jail. [Roll Eyes]


quote:
any cop can make it hard for you to know where volunteering ends and manditory begins.
It is your responsiblity to know, or find out, -police officers are not under any obligation to educate you on this matter.


quote:
"Probable Cause" in todays world can mean anything.
I have seen nothing regarding the change of the legal definition of PC since 9-11, probably because it hasn't.

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by j38u5:
[QBI realize that it is against our constitution, but the term "National Security" is being thrown around so much that our constitution is starting to come second. [/QB]

Dialogue from Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery:
Alotta Fajina: In Japan, women come second.
Austin: And sometimes not at all.

What do you mean, "starting"? For about 20 years, the police have been able to bulldoze a house where they suspect drug deals are taking place and seize any piece of equipment that they suspect has being used in a drug transaction. (The Court's incredible justification is that these are "actions against property" and not against persons. Fine. I'll steal your car and total it. I haven't committed a crime against you; I've committed a crime against your car.)

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"Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy

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Jay Temple
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
quote:
That's indicates that any violation of Title 28 (which is a lot of legistaltion) is cause under 1595(c). This makes the law less recursive.

Not sure what you mean.
I think it means self-referential.


quote:
quote:
a cop can pretty much make up anything he wants to, and any court will probably back him.
Yeah, we all just make up stuff because we don't really care about the truth, and we don't care if they are innocent or guilty just as long as someone goes to jail. [Roll Eyes]
How nice that the police and DA in your area are honest. It's not true everywhere, especially when the DA is up for re-election.

quote:
quote:
Any cop can make it hard for you to know where volunteering ends and manditory begins.
It is your responsiblity to know, or find out, -police officers are not under any obligation to educate you on this matter.[quote]
Tell that to the officers who arrested Ernesto Miranda. (Jurisprudentially, I think you're right and the SCotUS of 1966 got it wrong.)

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"Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
How nice that the police and DA in your area are honest. It's not true everywhere, especially when the DA is up for re-election.

I understand that there are unethical cops and DA's out there, but I think they are far from the norm. The vast majority of cops I know (not just here, but across the nation) would rather set a guilty man free than accidently put an innocent one in jail.


quote:
Tell that to the officers who arrested Ernesto Miranda
Miranda only applies in pretty limited situations. I do find that because of shows on TV and movies, some people think it applies all the time, and that Miranda rights must be read all the time. That is simply not true. (I do realize this is not what you were implying.)

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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quis_custodiet
Deck the Malls


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quote:
OMiranda only applies in pretty limited situations. I do find that because of shows on TV and movies, some people think it applies all the time, and that Miranda rights must be read all the time. That is simply not true. (I do realize this is not what you were implying.)
I did not know this! When does Miranda apply?

Thanks!

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quis custodiet

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pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by quis_custodiet:
quote:
OMiranda only applies in pretty limited situations. I do find that because of shows on TV and movies, some people think it applies all the time, and that Miranda rights must be read all the time. That is simply not true. (I do realize this is not what you were implying.)
I did not know this! When does Miranda apply?

Thanks!

Miranda applies when the person is in custody. "In custody" means that they are not free to leave. If you are at a crime scene, or asked to go to the police station for an interview, the presumption is that you are free to leave. Anything you say to the officer is usable. As soon as it is made clear that you are not free to leave (a rule of them is if the officer starts giving you orders instead of requests) then you can be considered to be in custody. The officer is not obligated to warn you about your statements if you are not in custody, even if you make incriminating statements. A stop for questioning (as in a traffic stop) is not considered to be in custody.

pinqy

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meanjelly
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Here is my opinion, Monday – Thursday you can be a smarty pants and not show your ID. However, Fri – Sun do what the cop ask. The cop may not have the right to arrest you but you sure do not want to sit in jail for three days waiting for someone to figure that out.

--------------------
Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
G. M. Trevelyan (1876 - 1962), English Social History (1942)

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DemonWolf
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Is there a law requiring you to carry ID? what If I've forgotten my wallet? If I don't have ID, I can't show ID, But I can identify myself verbally, so I'm not failing or refusing to identify myself. If I'm a passenger in a car, Why do I need ID? I can understand if I was in a bar. Co-incidentally, I was worked in a bar and learned that there is no law (in my state) requiring the bar to check ID, but there is a law prohibiting serving to minors and those who do not have ID. go figure...

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
Is there a law requiring you to carry ID? what If I've forgotten my wallet? If I don't have ID, I can't show ID, But I can identify myself verbally, so I'm not failing or refusing to identify myself.

There is no law in the US requiring anyone to carry ID.

If the police stop you and ask to see ID and you refuse to show them any, they can take you to the police station until they can verify your identity. But only if they have probable cause to suspect you've committed a crime.

Any police officer can *ask* to see ID. But the officer can't do anything if you don't show ID unless he thinks you may have violated a law.

For example, if you're a passenger in a car, and there is a crack pipe in the car, the officer would have probable cause.

If a bank has just been robbed by a man in a white SUV, and you are driving a white SUV near the bank, the police have probable cause to pull you over and determine you aren't the driver of the white SUV that just robbed the bank.

But if you haven't done anything, they can't take you to the police station only because you don't show ID.

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A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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pinqy
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quote:
There is no law in the US requiring anyone to carry ID.
Picking nits, but every state and territory requires a license to operate a motor vehicle, and you are required to have that license and vehicle registration with you while driving. Some states also require proof of insurance. So you are required to carry ID when driving.

pinqy

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Miranda applies when the person is in custody. "In custody" means that they are not free to leave.
That and that you are being questioned. I know that pinqy sort of hinted at that, but just wanted to try and clear it up a little bit.

Custody + Interogation = Miranda

DB

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
There is no law in the US requiring anyone to carry ID.
Picking nits, but every state and territory requires a license to operate a motor vehicle, and you are required to have that license and vehicle registration with you while driving. Some states also require proof of insurance. So you are required to carry ID when driving.

pinqy

Aye, but once again, we are talking about the passenger, not the driver. No law requires a passenger to carry ID.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Pogue Ma-humbug
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Temple:
Tell that to the officers who arrested Ernesto Miranda. (Jurisprudentially, I think you're right and the SCotUS of 1966 got it wrong.)

Well then, I am grateful you were not a member of that Supreme Court.

But let me ask Dark Blue and other cops on this baord. Has Miranda hurt law enforcement? Or has it defined the boundaries so that most everyone knows the limits?

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone in the den with a pen:

Has Miranda hurt law enforcement? Or has it defined the boundaries so that most everyone knows the limits?

Pogue [/QB]

Hard for me personally to answer this, because I was not a cop before Miranda went into effect, therefore I don't know what it was like before.

From personal experience, I do not know of anyone I have questioned that was going to talk to me, but then changed their mind after miranda was read. They have been

a) told me beforehand they wanted to talk to me, I read them miranda and they still talked to me

b) told me before miranda that they wanted a lawyer

c) didn't say anything either way before miranda

Have I wanted to question someone who invoked their rights, and thus prevented me from getting valuable statements? Absolutely. Is that their constitutional right? Absolutely. Should have to advise them of their rights? Personally I don't think so, and think its their responsibility to know their rights, but I don't loose any sleep over it. I have gotten plenty of convictions without suspect statements, because there was plenty of other evidence to prove the crime. I don't think a lot of cases are make or break on a suspects statements. If so then it wasn't a really good case to begin with. You better have better evidence that an "I did it." to prove beyond a resonable doubt.

DB

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
Picking nits, but every state and territory requires a license to operate a motor vehicle, and you are required to have that license and vehicle registration with you while driving. Some states also require proof of insurance. So you are required to carry ID when driving.

That's a non-existent nit.

There are a lot of situations where some form of permit or license is required--re-entering the country, driving a car, entering a security zone, etc.

But there is no law in this country that requires one to carry a document for the purposes of identification.

You must carry your license to operate a car when you are operating a car. You must carry your proof of the right to enter the country when you enter the country. You must show acceptable proof of age when purchasing alcohol or tobacco. You must show your permit to enter restricted areas if you are going into a restricted area.

None of that requires you to carry identification solely for the purposes of identification.

--------------------
A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
quote:
Miranda applies when the person is in custody. "In custody" means that they are not free to leave.
That and that you are being questioned. I know that pinqy sort of hinted at that, but just wanted to try and clear it up a little bit.

Custody + Interogation = Miranda

DB

Whoops...my error for not pointing that out. That can be a big one. The impression we get from TV and movies is that you must be read your rights as soon as you are arrested. But that's not true.

There are some grey areas. For example, if you voluntarily come in for questioning, but during the questioning the impression you get is that you are not free to leave although the police have not explicitly said you are not, are you in custody or not? In some cases it's yes and in some no.

pinqy

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Pogue Ma-humbug
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
The impression we get from TV and movies is that you must be read your rights as soon as you are arrested. But that's not true.

But any cop worth his salt would make sure such a suspect is read his rights. If not, and the suspect makes any statement, it's likely to be thrown out of court. If the police officer asks any question, even "How are you?" then it's a likely Miranda violation.

quote:
There are some grey areas. For example, if you voluntarily come in for questioning, but during the questioning the impression you get is that you are not free to leave although the police have not explicitly said you are not, are you in custody or not?
Even in those cases, most cops I know would get a signed Miranda waiver to head off future attacks. Especially if they think the person is going to make some self-incriminating statements.

Pogue

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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone in the den with a pen:
But any cop worth his salt would make sure such a suspect is read his rights. If not, and the suspect makes any statement, it's likely to be thrown out of court. If the police officer asks any question, even "How are you?" then it's a likely Miranda violation.

Then the statements wouldn't be used in court. A case won't be thrown out for lack of rights...the statements just aren't admissible. When your main evidence is a confession that's big, but a lot of the time no confession is needed. For the cases where the cops don't bother reading the rights when the suspect is in custody, it's usually because they don't care what s/he has to say. Plus, once at the station, it's easier to document that the rights have been read in a formal interrogation.

pinqy

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Here is my opinion, Monday – Thursday you can be a smarty pants and not show your ID. However, Fri – Sun do what the cop ask. The cop may not have the right to arrest you but you sure do not want to sit in jail for three days waiting for someone to figure that out.
That would not happen here. Mo matter what day you are arrested, you get an initial appearance within 24 hours. If not then the jail lets you go. At the IA it is likely that something like this would get cleared up.

--------------------
I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Bug Muldoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Strawberries'n Sugar *w/ potassium*:
My friends and I were once pulled over because the driver made a bad turn. It was about 11:15 on a Tuesday night during the summer, but I guess we were out past curfew. The officer asked to see all of our IDs and ended up giving tickets to all of us for being out past curfew. Apparently cops can't pull you over for just "looking underage" so they usually make up some dumb reason to pull people over. My question is: did he have "probable cause" to ask for everyone else's ID, or does it fall along the same lines as not being able to pull someone over because they look younger?


Wait - there is an official (as in "by law") curfew that says when underage people are supposed to be home ? And that bothers you less than having to show your ID ?

Over here , everyone from the age of 12 (I think) carries an ID , but I've never heard of official curfews.

What am I missing here ?

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eratik
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone in the den with a pen:
But any cop worth his salt would make sure such a suspect is read his rights. If not, and the suspect makes any statement, it's likely to be thrown out of court. If the police officer asks any question, even "How are you?" then it's a likely Miranda violation.

Then the statements wouldn't be used in court. A case won't be thrown out for lack of rights...the statements just aren't admissible. When your main evidence is a confession that's big, but a lot of the time no confession is needed. For the cases where the cops don't bother reading the rights when the suspect is in custody, it's usually because they don't care what s/he has to say. Plus, once at the station, it's easier to document that the rights have been read in a formal interrogation.

pinqy

Any "fruits of the poison tree" are likely to be barred from evidence as well. Many times information taken from a suspect leads to the discovery of much of the other evidence to be used against that person.
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meanjelly
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
quote:
Here is my opinion, Monday – Thursday you can be a smarty pants and not show your ID. However, Fri – Sun do what the cop ask. The cop may not have the right to arrest you but you sure do not want to sit in jail for three days waiting for someone to figure that out.
That would not happen here. Mo matter what day you are arrested, you get an initial appearance within 24 hours. If not then the jail lets you go. At the IA it is likely that something like this would get cleared up.
I am glad to hear. I know growing up in VA there was no initial appearance on the weekends, of course that was 10 years ago.

--------------------
Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
G. M. Trevelyan (1876 - 1962), English Social History (1942)

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Cyberdeputy01
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My wife asked me about this topic the other day and an argument arose. Me being in the LE career field didn't help any. First lets clear up one issue. Routine traffic stop... there is nothing routine about a traffic stop. Always hated when they say that in the movies because traffic stops can be extremely dangerous. You never know what is in the vehicle or anything about the driver.

MIRANDA: The miranda warning does not have to be given at all unless the investigating officer is going to question the suspect on the particular case. Someone mentioned about being in the car. If a suspect starts babbling about the case while on the way to jail, anything he says is admissable in court. He/she is giving there testimony free of will. The officer is not asking any questions at all.

ID's: If you are pulled over and you are a passenger, unless the officer has probable cause to believe a crime has been committed and you are a possible suspect, I believe the answer is no. You can say no when asked about giving your ID. But thing to remember is if you are not guilty of anything then you have nothing to hide. It is quicker to give them your info than to have them take a closer look at everything in plain view. Let's say you weren't wearing your seatbelt. In MI, that alone can get them to ask for ID depending on where you are sitting. What if you don't have your ID on you? P.O.'s have access to LEIN - Law Enforcement Information Network. If you have ever had a ticket, a State ID, a DL, etc they can pull up everything about you. So you give them the correct info (name, dob, address etc) you are good to go. You give false info, you go to jail. There are so many ways out there to find something or some way to get what they want. They ask you your personal info. They then ask someone else in the vehicle about you. The info doesn't jive, that is now probable cause to get ID from you.

As a member of the LE community, I feel the more people cooperate when pulled over etc, the easier it is on us and them. Once you try and resist/fight etc, then maybe you are trying to hide something. Have people said "no" to ID's? All the time... Do we always get what we want? Nope...

Vehicle laws vary from state to state. Remember that, and remember that the next time you get pulled over. The easier it is on the Officer, possibly be easier on you.

Take care all...

A.M.
Cyberdeputy01

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moonlight
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Cyberdeputy01:
Routine traffic stop... there is nothing routine about a traffic stop. Always hated when they say that in the movies because traffic stops can be extremely dangerous. You never know what is in the vehicle or anything about the driver.

Thank you, this is one of my pet peeves. Whenever I hear "it started as a routine traffic stop..." it just makes me cringe.

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I'm back to lurking.

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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quote:
First lets clear up one issue. Routine traffic stop... there is nothing routine about a traffic stop.
You know that and I know that, but the public in general is never gonna know that. I doubt that the average person I stop knows that I have already thought about a few ways to kill them if this goes bad. They just arn't going to understand why we look at things differently. So if they want to think its routine, fine, but you know that us doing the job won't ever find it routine.

Dark "be professional, and courteous at all times, but have a plan to kill everyone you met" Blue

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue:
I doubt that the average person I stop knows that I have already thought about a few ways to kill them if this goes bad.

Now I'll probably wet my pants next time I see a police officer, thinking he's planning my death.

Seriously, though, while we're on the topic, how realistic do you think this is? My ex-boyfriend told the story that he was a passenger in his cousin's car when they were stopped by the police, one officer on each side of the car. Ex had to get his cousin's wallet out of the glove box, and when reaching in, pulled out a screwdriver first. (Accidentally, or trying to get it out of the way - I don't know.) He says the officer on his side had a gun at his head instantly, and the officer on the driver's side sort of chuckled and told the other one to relax, explaining that he was a rookie, and advised ex to remove things from the glove box with only one hand while the other rested on the dashboard.

I never knew whether to believe this (he lied to me about other things - but that's a different story!), but after reading your post, was curious.

Oh, this would have happened in Albany or Troy, NY. Not that I expect you'd know of it, but in case that mattered.

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I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

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Dark Blue
The First USA Noel


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Well, please don't be frightened and wet your pants the next time your stopped. That would be cause for embarassment on both our parts no? (Although I probably wouldn't give you a ticket after that) If a driver does nothing to alarm me, I will make this as pleasant as I can (After all its still a traffic stop and can only be so pleasant) Do the vast majority of people I stop want to kill or hurt me? No. Do I assume they do? You bet. Its better to be ahead of the game when this becomes the case.

As far as the situation you described here are my thoughts on it. I understand the officer's thoughts and actions, although I would have done a few things diffrently because lets face it, screwing a gun into someones head isn't community friendly. I would have stepped back from the vehicle a little ways, had a ready grip on my gun, and then we would have had a discussion about the srewdriver and where it needed to go, and that next time it would be better to not grab it or at least tell me about it. Again there is a 99.9% chance that its an innocent act. But I'm gonna be prepared for the .1% time that it isn't. Being that its a screwdriver, to attack me with it he would either have to open the door and get out, or come through the window. If I back up, I'm still ahead of the game and can deal with this if thats what happens. Personally I think the supposedly "veteran" officer's attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. He is thinking of it like its more than likely that they don't want to hurt me. And he is right 99% of the time, but the 1% of the time he is wrong, he is gonna get hurt or killed. Just my opinion.

I don't want to have to kill anybody, but will be ready if thats what it comes to, and if so I will be coming home that night.

DB
All thoughts expressed within are purely the opinion of the poster, and do not nessesarily expreess the views of the law enforcement community in general. This post void where prohibited by law.

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I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret)

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Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


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DB, Thanks for answering my question. I hate the idea of anybody getting killed, ever (it sounds like you do, too!), but I do like knowing you're out there protecting us, and that you're taking steps to protect yourself as well. And I agree, if you and a bad guy have to have it out, I'd want you to be the one to win.

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I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

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spankymead
The Red and the Green Stamps


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In Springfield, MO they can ask for your licence, but you can refuse. If you do refuse it is probable cause and then you have to or it's interfering with an officer's duties. Kinda funny how that works.
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bvs
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
be professional, and courteous at all times, but have a plan to kill everyone you met
YOMANKAPOP(and pair of pants)!!!! Someone should put that on a T-Shirt, can i use that?
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Vesta
We Three Blings


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quote:
Well, please don't be frightened and wet your pants the next time your stopped. That would be cause for embarassment on both our parts no? (Although I probably wouldn't give you a ticket after that)
*Makes a note about what to do the next time I'm pulled over.*


Vesta

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Innocence, on the Bicycle of Propriety, carrying the Urn of Reputation safely over the Abyss of Indiscretion.

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Debi
The Red and the Green Stamps


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When I took Driver's Ed, they taught us about "Implied Consent" Now, I live in Massachusetts, I don't know if it's different in other states, but basically they taught us that your lisence is not really yours, its the state's. And they have the right to take it back whenever they want, it doesn't belong to you. I suppose thinking back to this, if it belongs to the state, technically, they would certainly have the right to see it.
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ziplock
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Well, when it comes to Checkpoint Charlies, aren't we talking about a complete violation of 4th amendment rights? People simply driving down the road seems to be probably cause enough to stop someone and make him to produce ID, force him to submit to sobriety tests with the penalty of the loss of his license if he refuses, slap on thousands of dollars in fines and possible jail time, and finally refuse him a proper jury trial because the crime is too petty (a violation of 6th amendment rights). This may be a bit off topic, but it does seem to be similar to arresting homeless people because they're hungry and might steal.

Crazy laws

"26. If you are intoxicated but not driving your car, but the person who is driving your car is intoxicated, both you and the driver can be charged with DUI (driving under the influence of alcohol) in Virginia Beach, Virginia."

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