posted
I think the best way to combat them is to agree with the conspiracy theorist. Well, not quite. You go farther than he does. You add on something to his theory that makes him just stand back and say you're the one that's insane.
Sure it's not a cure for the theories, but it confuses them enough to retard the growth.
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quote:Originally posted by Shoggoth: I think the best way to combat them is to agree with the conspiracy theorist. Well, not quite. You go farther than he does. You add on something to his theory that makes him just stand back and say you're the one that's insane.
Sure it's not a cure for the theories, but it confuses them enough to retard the growth.
Careful! A chap where I used to work really believed everything, including Planet X. I argued best I could while I worked there, and when I left we continued our debates by e-mail. At one point he discovered the Illuminatii stuff and asked me about it. In jest I told him that I was a member of Discordia, an ancient organisation dedicated to destroying the Illuminati, but I couldn't tell him any more about it. Several weeks later my wife (who still works there) came home and asked what on Earth I'd been telling him. It seems he came up to her and siad, "Your husband really knows a lot about what's really going on doesn't he?" She said he seemed very respectful -- so much so it kind of creeped her out.
Yeesh.
-------------------- "Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know." ~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne Posts: 1382 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2003
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Cato ain't a Hound Dog
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quote:Originally posted by Shoggoth: I think the best way to combat them is to agree with the conspiracy theorist. Well, not quite. You go farther than he does. You add on something to his theory that makes him just stand back and say you're the one that's insane.
this reminds me of this TV programme I saw about conspiracy theories: one of the theorists (along the lines of Bilderburg etc) was going on about David Icke: (paraphrase) "He was making so much sense, I thought we had a powerful voice on our side, and then he had to go and bring up the shape-shifting lizards!!"
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Captain Indeed
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I had a summer job a few years back, and the guy I sat beside began telling me these stories. They started out quite believable, but then he started talking about having seen the ghost of his mother, having seen UFOs, and various conspiracy-related snippets of this ilk. With complete sincerity, as far as I could tell.
As a complete sceptic I felt I had a duty to cast doubt upon his tales, but he spoke with such conviction and passion that I realised I'd never be able to convince him that what he was claiming wasn't necessarily true. I wore a doubtful expression and periodically asked him, "Are you sure about that?" (I don't know if this repressed doubt was good for me, every so often I felt like leaping from my seat and screaming, "Lies! It's all hollow, baseless lies!")
Classic moments: after seeing a UFO, my colleague and his friend found a strange object lying in a field, which they "sent to the lab". (What lab!!?). The report came back, and apparently it was a metal "not known to science".
Oh, and one time he was working in a government building and was told to file something. He went down to the basement, and was told to get into a little train that was down there. The train went under Edinburgh castle, into an abandoned zircon mine, where all the top secret stuff was being stored.
I mean, where do you begin trying to discuss this stuff?
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I like Shoggoth's advice, though I wouldn't involve myself in the conspiracy. Alternately, make up your own theory, at least as ridiculous, and assert that they've fallen for the red herrings. The phone company is behind everything...they've just spread the rumors about the Illuminati to confuse the issue...even the members of the Illuminati don't know they're just pawns.
pinqy
-------------------- Don't Forget! Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming! Posts: 8671 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Feb 2000
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I take the exact opposite approach. I say, politely, "I don't know."
A cow-orker was all agog over "chemtrails." He came round and showed me page after page of photos. I said, "I dunno. I guess they could be chemicals." He insisted that they were toxic chemicals being spewed from tanks inside high-flying USAF planes. I shrugged, and said, "Don't ask me. I sure don't know."
For some reason, this made him more and more eager to persuade me, but I just kept up the "know nothing" act. "I'm not a pilot. I'm not a chemist. I don't know what those are. Could be chemicals. I wouldn't know."
It was so wonderfully non-confrontational that he could never get angry...but, wow, he sure as hell was frustrated!
Silas
-------------------- When on music's mighty pinion, souls of men to heaven rise, Then both vanish earth's dominion, man is native to the skies. Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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THE-Rex
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Some which are just not worth it (tounge in cheek ahoy).
* Oh I saw that movie. Don't you just love fiction?
* Ok, I think someone needs their meds now.
* I can neither confirm or deny.
* I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
* Where did you put your white jacket? I'll help you find it if you'd like.
* Actually, I only came for a drink. I find your rantings are interfering with me getting intoxicated.
* The door's that way pal!
* OMG. What sort of accident were you in? Was your head badly hurt?
* Sorry. I've signed a 'secrets' act.
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How I react to a conspiracy theory depends on many factors, from what I think of the believer, to what I think of the motivation for the person telling me, to how I feel that day.
I like One-upping: "Yeah, but everybody knows that. Now, did you hear about [something completely insane]."
Adding parts: Taking a pre-existing conspiracy and adding my own flare to it. I did this with the "Bush had Saddam already" people. "Yeah, and they have BinLaden, too. The're gonna 'capture' him during the Democratic Convention."
Deep Cover: "Illuminati? PSHAW! We Celestial Mechanics are the ones who're really running the show!"
And then, of course, there's the more usual responses of mocking, derisive laughter, and out-and-out saying "You're an NFBSKing LOONY, you idiot!" "The government can't even keep that guy Wilson's wife's name secret!"
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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My personal favorite conspiracy theory: Well, it's a well-known fact, sonny jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world known as the Pentavaret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as The Meadows.
So who's in this Pentavaret?
The Queen, the Vatican, the Geddes, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tattzup. Oh, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face - "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken!"
Dad, how can you hate The Colonel?
Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smartass
1. look them in the eye 2. say in a clear voice; 'what are you? crazy' 3. if they persist say; 'I really think for your safety that you should get the hell outta here' 4. if they persue you, shout; 'thats it, release the motherships'
or if that fails, eat the evidence they produce to you. Yum Yum
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"You know, the Government can't hide microphones in a hotel, they can't properly smuggle arms in exchange for hostages. Heck, they can't even keep a simple blowjob secret. Sir, I just can't believe that the Government is competent enough to keep XXXXX a seeekrit"
-------------------- We're not insured for pickles. Posts: 2358 | From: Fort McMurray, Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000
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As much as I LOVE Jon's strategery, I have used the following with some positive results.
I listen politely all dang night long - never embellishing, just asking more probing questions.
Then - just as I am ready to leave, I catch the goon's eye and go to talk to him in the center of whatever room we are in. I jockey him around for a couple seconds like I can't quite get him "in position" and keep looking off to the left (90 degrees) as if looking for a reference point.
Then I tell him that his views were pretty interesting and ask him if he could do me a favor.
Of course, with the praise, they ALWAYS jump at the chance.
I ask him too look directly at my face (pointing to my nose). Then, I ask him (using large arm movements of my own for direction) to slowly look straight up (raising my hand way up and pointing at the ceiling). When his head is tipped Waaaaay back, I then ask him to slooooooowly look down at my shoes (pointing the way).
When he is done, I step to his left side, and, with my hands on his shoulders, assist him to turn to his right (towards that mystery reference spot I was looking originally). I usually have to readjust several times and then with a quick pat and a "that's good" under my breath, continue.
Standing slightly to the left my original spot - putting me slightly into his field of view, I repeat the requests, using the huge hand gestures and repeated glances off in that strange direction.
When he is done, he is also usually slightly upset and wondering what is going on. All I do is shake his hand (making sure I am still at 45 degrees between where we 'were' and that invisible spot), and thank him. With a glance over my shoulder towards the 'spot', I assure him that he may be learning more about whatever it was he was spouting very soon.
Then, I depart as quickly as I can, with very few goodbyes (having done them before).
This is usually good enough to make sure the guys never want to talk to me again!! I had one host that told me that the guy went over to where I was looking and searched for HOURS trying to find the micro-camera.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they AREN'T out to get you.
*edited for stupid punctuation errors*
-------------------- Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it. Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by First of Blue Suede Shoes: Adding parts: Taking a pre-existing conspiracy and adding my own flare to it. I did this with the "Bush had Saddam already" people. "Yeah, and they have BinLaden, too. The're gonna 'capture' him during the Democratic Convention."
Weird. I heard someone at a TGIF last week make this exact claim that "they" already have bin Laden but he was absolutely serious. I think your plan worked. Brian
-------------------- "Dear Big Foot Smellers: Please don't quote me on some of this information." John F. Winston Posts: 1707 | From: Camarillo, CA | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Ya know, Malruhn, I'm going to have to try that! Of course, I might smile and wave at the imaginary camera to drive the person really nuts!
Typically, it'll come up with the religious ranters that show up on the Mall. If you don't buy into everything they say (and give $$$), they claim you're a member of X and trying to persecute them.
Requesting proof usually causes them to pause for a minute, just long enough to make a break for it!
-------------------- "To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed. Posts: 5584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by kita wanna go home: The Phone Cops will get you.
"Are You Afraid of the Dark"?
Or WKRP in Cincinati.
Nonny
-------------------- When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 10141 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Nonny Mouse, Tail-ing the Suspect:
quote:Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead:
quote:Originally posted by kita wanna go home: The Phone Cops will get you.
"Are You Afraid of the Dark"?
Or WKRP in Cincinati.
Nonny
nonny Wins WKRP in cincinati , Where johhny thinks the phone cops are out to get him & theres a big conspiracy involving the phone company.
Posts: 1932 | From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2001
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Garil
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A nice way to make them doubt:
Maybe that's what ¨they¨ want you to think!
Myself I like listening to loonies.It never ceases to amaze me how people can believe those things
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John Dope
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I would just like to say the following: Please don't dismiss all conspiracy theorists as tinfoil - hat wearing paranoids and all conspiracy theories as unfounded fruitcake babble. I admit I believe that there's something fishy about the JFK shooting, but I don't pretend to know what, I believe that governments isn't all ethical Winnie the Poohs who always wants to save the nation, I believe some aliens have visited earth. Sue me or flame me if you must, but that is my opinion.
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quote:Originally posted by John Dope: I believe some aliens have visited earth.
What makes you believe this?
-------------------- Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupefied... by you! Posts: 3157 | From: Illinois | Registered: Dec 2002
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kessira
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quote:Originally posted by Barns & No Bull:
quote:Originally posted by John Dope: I believe some aliens have visited earth.
What makes you believe this?
Barnes, have you met my hubby? I got yer proof right here... That being said, I must now respond to Bob's signature line. Bwahahahahahah... Urkh! Thud! Judy
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John Dope
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quote:Originally posted by Barns & No Bull:
quote:Originally posted by John Dope: I believe some aliens have visited earth.
What makes you believe this?
To quote "Johnny English" - "a excellent question, and one that I believe has a complex answer". Here's my logic reasons for believing this. Sit tight and buckle your seatbelt, cuz this is going to be one hell of a ride: There's loads of reports of alien sightings/abductions coming in each year. Now, A LOT of that is probably fraud, hallucinations, lights playing tricks, etc. However, a few of these sightings are inexplicable as tricks of the light, come from completely sane persons with no record of sleep paralysis, vivid dreaming or drug use. This alone is not very good evidence, but speaking of evidence, there is some. For example, people who have never heard of each other often describe the aliens, UFO's, etc. in a strikingly similar fashion.
[wipes sweat from brow. Suddenly pausing in horror] Oh no, it's the Sceptical Enquirer and it's closing in on us. OH MY GOD, HE'S GOT A JAMES RANDI. RUN!!!
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W. Fikere Tomba
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quote:Originally posted by John Dope: There's loads of reports of alien sightings/abductions coming in each year. Now, A LOT of that is probably fraud, hallucinations, lights playing tricks, etc. However, a few of these sightings are inexplicable as tricks of the light, come from completely sane persons with no record of sleep paralysis, vivid dreaming or drug use.
Can you list even one example? I hear people saying this all the time, but I've yet to encounter a single alien report that meets those criteria.
quote: This alone is not very good evidence, but speaking of evidence, there is some. For example, people who have never heard of each other often describe the aliens, UFO's, etc. in a strikingly similar fashion.
So what if they've never heard of each other? Images of extraterrestrials permeate popular culture. Everybody's watching the same movies and TV shows, seeing the same ads, looking at the same Websites. You haven't seen an alien, but you already know what they're supposed to look like, don't you? Sometimes I think that if aliens actually visited Earth and looked nothing like little pallid men with bulbous heads and almond-shaped eyes flying in disc-shaped spacecraft, nobody would realize they were aliens.
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John Dope
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quote:Originally posted by W. Fikere Tomba:
quote:Originally posted by John Dope: There's loads of reports of alien sightings/abductions coming in each year. Now, A LOT of that is probably fraud, hallucinations, lights playing tricks, etc. However, a few of these sightings are inexplicable as tricks of the light, come from completely sane persons with no record of sleep paralysis, vivid dreaming or drug use.
Can you list even one example? I hear people saying this all the time, but I've yet to encounter a single alien report that meets those criteria.
quote: This alone is not very good evidence, but speaking of evidence, there is some. For example, people who have never heard of each other often describe the aliens, UFO's, etc. in a strikingly similar fashion.
So what if they've never heard of each other? Images of extraterrestrials permeate popular culture. Everybody's watching the same movies and TV shows, seeing the same ads, looking at the same Websites. You haven't seen an alien, but you already know what they're supposed to look like, don't you? Sometimes I think that if aliens actually visited Earth and looked nothing like little pallid men with bulbous heads and almond-shaped eyes flying in disc-shaped spacecraft, nobody would realize they were aliens.
Look, I really didn't think this was going to escalate into such a long debate. I just aired my opinion. Sorry if you don't like it, but what do you say we just leave it at this? I know it sounds like I'm trying to get myself out because my own arguments have cornered me, but I just think this could turn into a flame war or a kerzillion pages of discussion on only this (when it in reality was meant as a thread were you could post tips about "combating" a "conspiracy theory"), whichever comes first
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dofwai
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quote:Originally posted by John Dope: ....(when it in reality was meant as a thread were you could post tips about "combating" a "conspiracy theory"),...
So in a thread about combatting conspiracy theories, you post your support for a conspiracy theory???
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W. Fikere Tomba
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quote:Originally posted by John Dope: Look, I really didn't think this was going to escalate into such a long debate. I just aired my opinion. Sorry if you don't like it, but what do you say we just leave it at this? I know it sounds like I'm trying to get myself out because my own arguments have cornered me, but I just think this could turn into a flame war or a kerzillion pages of discussion on only this (when it in reality was meant as a thread were you could post tips about "combating" a "conspiracy theory"), whichever comes first
The ball's in your court. If you choose not to debate it further, it ends here. If you choose to continue, and it starts looking like a flame war or an endless circular debate, I myself will drop out. But I'd call what we've said so far not an escalation, but only a slight digression, which is perfectly normal around here.
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John Dope
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quote:Originally posted by dofwai:
quote:Originally posted by John Dope: ....(when it in reality was meant as a thread were you could post tips about "combating" a "conspiracy theory"),...
So in a thread about combatting conspiracy theories, you post your support for a conspiracy theory???
Yes, and I think you would understand why if you read my post a little more carefully.
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A Gayle walks into a bar. Tuesday night, I met my brother for happy hour. Should have known better. At the short end of the bar sat all my favorite conspiracy theorists. In the space of two hours, I heard about Colonel Sanders & KFC, the National Security Council, the Illuminati, the CIA, and chemtrails. They were also forming some interesting new theories about GPS. Finally, one of them said "...and then the supreme court outlawed the death penalty saying it was cruel & unusual punishment..." That's when I lost it. "No. No they did not. They said that the method by which capital punishment was meted out was cruel & unusual. The ambiguous standards for implementing it, NOT the punishment itself. I won't even touch the word 'outlawed'."
Usually, I just ignore the freaks at that end of the bar. Area 51, I call it. You can't argue with them. It raises my blood pressure when I get that "Well, obviously they've brainwashed you into believing it." or "Gayle, it's true; you just don't want to believe the evidence." So I play the video crack... er, video poker game and try not to grind my teeth. Every once in a while, though, I have to go off.
"Lawrence? Lar-Lar? You hear that? That's the black helicopters, man, and they're coming to take you to the lizard people. The illumin-fucking-ati got wind of the fact that you're catching on to them so the Rothschilds sent the CIA to get the lizards to come take your miserable hide off to the Bermuda Triangle for an anal probe. All this time, the tv's actually been monitoring your conversations. They know it's you by the chip they put in you. I can't believe you fell for that vaccination bullshit. Who'da thunk it? Out of the millions of people in the world, they picked you--YOU to monitor because of your special ability to... to... well, whatever it is you do that causes the NSC to give a rat's ass enough to monitor you 24-7. So long, pal. Good luck with the flat earth society and watch out for the chem trails."
It doesn't do much good. They think I'm funny. Misguided, but funny. But sometimes it does me good just to let it rip. Of course, one time I was just plain mean. "Roadie, the federal government might be able to spy on you by satellite, radio, and computer chips, but if you'll notice, none of us have been listening to you for the last five years. Why would the feds be any different?"
Posts: 4811 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Gayle, er... for sale or rent: A Gayle walks into a bar. Tuesday night, I met my brother for happy hour. Should have known better. At the short end of the bar sat all my favorite conspiracy theorists. In the space of two hours, I heard about Colonel Sanders & KFC, the National Security Council, the Illuminati, the CIA, and chemtrails.
What is it with bars and conspiracy theories? If I had to guess that the alcohol lowers their fears about being ridiculed. I cannot count the number of wacky theories I have heard in bars. Just a few weeks ago I had the misfortune to run into this guy who was claiming that homosexuals had this global conspiracy going on for several thousand years to destroy civilization and technology and return us to living in caves. He called anyone who tried to argue with him a dupe and too stupid to see the "TRVTH." (I just ignored him.) When this happened I thought about starting a thread in Rantidote about conspiracy nuts in bars but I didn't want to waste any more time on it. Brian
-------------------- "Dear Big Foot Smellers: Please don't quote me on some of this information." John F. Winston Posts: 1707 | From: Camarillo, CA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Tallon Roe
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I only responded once when a friend starting talking about a "conspiracy". It went something like this-
"Well sh*t. You caught me. Now get in the damn car."
posted
John, I would say that the questions asked, present one example of a case that can't be dismissed for example, is a very good one that isn't really asking for a flame war. Granted, it is obvious what the person thinks and all, but it's still a very logical thing and I have the same request. Simply put, the burden of proof goes to whoever is making the more absurd suggestion. I'm not calling what you claim absurd mind you, just the more absurd claim.
Posts: 958 | From: United States | Registered: Dec 2000
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StarlandVocalBand
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Why would "the homosexuals" want us to live in caves? What would that do to the lucrative interior design, antiques, and catering industries that employ so many of their brotherhood?
Christopher Lowell: I looove the boulders, but the dirt isn't doing a thing for me. What you need here is a few hyena skeletons and some bat guano...now that's a Look!
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quote: Well, it's a well-known fact, sonny jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world known as the Pentavaret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as The Meadows.
So who's in this Pentavaret?
The Queen, the Vatican, the Geddes, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tattzup. Oh, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face - "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken!"
Dad, how can you hate The Colonel?
Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smartass
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this reminds me of this TV programme I saw about conspiracy theories: one of the theorists (along the lines of Bilderburg etc) was going on about 
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