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Author Topic: Did a Chinese Army Disappear?
Felessan
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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In a number of books on the paranormal you will find a reference to a 'Chinese army' (actually just under 3,000 men) that vanished overnight from their positions near Nanking in 1939, leaving their heavy weapons. The Colonel in charge, Li Fu Sien, had no idea how they had vanished.
I could only find this English language reference, and it has no details.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WCPI/message/6

Can anyone shed any light on this?

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LittleDuck
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I have a rather large library of paranormal books but this is the first time I have heard of this (though that doesn't mean it isn't in one...sometimes I skip stories that look boring). I'll have a look at some of the better books I have and see if I can dig something up for you. Just out of curiosity, where did you first hear about this?

Little "maybe they're with the Roanoke colonists" Duck

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Felessan
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Little Dead Duck:
I have a rather large library of paranormal books but this is the first time I have heard of this (though that doesn't mean it isn't in one...sometimes I skip stories that look boring). I'll have a look at some of the better books I have and see if I can dig something up for you. Just out of curiosity, where did you first hear about this?

Little "maybe they're with the Roanoke colonists" Duck

Frank Edwards (not very reliable source IMO) in either "Strange World" or "Stranger Than Science", and a dude called Richard Lazarus in "Unnatural Causes" (one of the most inaccurate and poorly-researched books on the paranormal ever written). Michael Harrison touched upon it too in "Vanishings", but he's somewhere between Edwards and Lazarus for credibility. That said, just because it's written about by drongos doesn't mean it didn't happen...

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You fool! That's not a warrior, that's a banana!
- a surreal moment in a role-playing game

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I don't believe it for a minute.

An entire army vanishing like that would violate the laws of physics. And they couldn't have turned into energy or such and vanished that way; such an energy release would destroy the whole of China.

So my guess is that somewhere around Nanking there's a mass grave with said soldiers buried in it. But what could cause an army like that to be completely destroyed, leaving only their weapons behind? Any logical, scientific answers as to why this might happen?

- Pseudo "going, going, gone" Croat

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The Rubber Chicken
The First USA Noel


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I'd probably go with the mass-grave theory here. The Japanese army in China was notorious for disposing of POWs. I wouldn't be suprised if the Chinese surrendered, and were then executed. The Japanese, of course, wouldn't have bothered documenting any POWs -- because they didn't take any. The other possibility is that they could have fled. From the little information we have, it is impossible to tell if there were any places they could have sneaked off to. The person who posted asserts that they couldn't have left without being seen, but we have no reason to believe that is true at this point.

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Ursa Major
The Red and the Green Stamps


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A demoralized army can evaporate in mere hours, especially if they're stationed in their own country. I'm guessing ol' Li Fu Sien prefered to credit the supernatural for the diapperence rather than admit that his men deserted him.
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apparitia
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Read "Phantoms" by Dean Koontz. Fictional, but deals with just these sort of "mass disappearences." Also refers to some real-life disappearances and (if I remember correctly) has referrels in the back to books dealing with this subject. (By the way, stick to the book, I've read it 7 or 8 times and it still scares the NFBSK out of me!!! The movie has Rose McGowan and Ben Affleck in it, but does not go by the book at all.)
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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Felessan:
In a number of books on the paranormal you will find a reference to a 'Chinese army' (actually just under 3,000 men) that vanished overnight from their positions near Nanking in 1939, leaving their heavy weapons. The Colonel in charge, Li Fu Sien, had no idea how they had vanished.
I could only find this English language reference, and it has no details.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WCPI/message/6

Can anyone shed any light on this?

This page mentions Li Fu Sien and 1939, but it's in Portuguese. Perhaps Luis can help. I found a couple mentions in Polish, but nothing else. Maybe the Colonel's name is wrong.

It's not mentioned in the "Basic Facts On The Nanking Massacre And The Tokyo War Crimes Trial".

BTW, it's "Nanjing" (pinyin) instead of "Nanking" (Wade-Giles) now.

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The Spider in the Ointment
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Felessan:
Can anyone shed any light on this?

They deserted?

By the way, there's long been reports that a Roman legion (the IXth I think) disappeared in Scotland, but supposedly this has been debunked, because they were moved to Germany or some other part of the Continent.

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Queen Mac
Turkey Largo


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quote:
Originally posted by apparitia:
Read "Phantoms" by Dean Koontz. Fictional, but deals with just these sort of "mass disappearences." Also refers to some real-life disappearances and (if I remember correctly) has referrels in the back to books dealing with this subject. (By the way, stick to the book, I've read it 7 or 8 times and it still scares the NFBSK out of me!!! The movie has Rose McGowan and Ben Affleck in it, but does not go by the book at all.)

So true about the horror thing--I only bought it because a friend had mentioned it to me in passing, and I thought it'd be an "okay read"...Turned out a lot better than I thought it would!

Let's see if I can remember all of those it mentions (Just read it again last week--should be able too...) Roanoke, the Chinese Army (and I remember something about a Spainish Army, too), the (was it?) Mayan civilization, and that...uh...one ship in the Bermuda Triangle, where the boat was discovered but no people were on it (and there was a meal sitting on the tables half eaten or something?)

Some of these have probably been debunked somewhere. Now that my interest is piqued, I'll go on a search and edit to add any sites I find.


[EDITED] The Mary Celeste-A good little site. Pointed out some things I never heard before, so I don't know if they're true or not. (The "Based on FACT--Not Fiction!" thing bugs me though...)

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Felessan
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by The Spider in the Ointment:
quote:
Originally posted by Felessan:
Can anyone shed any light on this?

They deserted?

By the way, there's long been reports that a Roman legion (the IXth I think) disappeared in Scotland, but supposedly this has been debunked, because they were moved to Germany or some other part of the Continent.

Yes - the IXth Legion (Hispania) has turned up in the paranormalist books - it even generated a rather good novel ("The Eagle of the Ninth"); but the evidence for any mass disappearance is thin at best.

Apart from the IXth Legion and Colonel Li's troops, there have been a few other cases of 'disappearing armies', but none verifiable.

Ripley's claimed that four thousand French soldiers vanished crossing the Pyrenees in the late 18th century, but gave no other details.
"The Unexplained" had a small item on 650 French soldiers who vanished in French Indo-China [Vietnam] in the late 19th century but again, there was little else to go on.
Finally, there is the notorious "First Fourth Norfolks" case from the Gallipoli campaign in 1915, when a British regiment supposedly vanished after walking into a cloud that later rose into the sky and vanished. This one at least is well documented - it's also been shown to be spurious.
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/LostSandringhams.htm

Back to the missing Chinese force...
One account I have to hand shows some of the pitfalls of secondary sources. Richard Lazarus' "Unnatural Causes" gives a full page to this, but it gives few checkable details, and shows signs of being written either from memory or badly-scrawled notes, referring as it does to "General Li Fu Siea" and later calls him "General Fu Siea" - AFAIK that would be akin to calling (say) Patton "General George".

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You fool! That's not a warrior, that's a banana!
- a surreal moment in a role-playing game

Posts: 2480 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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