The first point? Well, she has been dead for two years. If they can't figure that out, what can you trust about what they say?

Li "Dead right" sa

"What's my name?"

Ka"then perhaps you'd like a more durable siding?"min

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"I'm going to Walt Disney World!"

Psychic Mail, Part 1: The Clues
Psychic Mail, Part 2: The Claims

And then, as a follow-up later: Psychic Mail Update: Arkansas Sues Psychic Hotline

The birth date is to verify that you're over 18. Yes, it's possible to lie. I had an 11 year old try to tell me she was over 18. It doesn't take long (and it doesn't take a mind reader) to tell that the caller is a minor, though. Even if the caller is just shy of 18, it still eventually comes through.

We also collect address for promotional mailings (as many people here have already complained about). Look around on the junkmail. There's going to be a customer service number on there. Call it and ask to be removed from the list. It's that easy. They won't try to pressure you into a reading, either.

I have done many accurate readings -- on the phone and in person. I've also had a few where I couldn't get any sort of a handle on the situation and I've told the person honestly that I can't read for them. I offer them the customer service number.

Honestly... the majority of people who call the psychic lines are people who have already made a decision about something and just want outside confirmation -- an impartial hand in a situation. Sometimes they just want someone to talk to.

But it's still a business. And businesses advertise. If you don't want to continue getting mail for someone that no longer lives there, or if you're getting phone calls from the telemarketers, treat it just like you would any other unwanted spam -- ask to be removed from the list. They'll do it no questions asked.

And please don't call the lines and "have fun" with the readers. There's nothing more frustrating than calls that are nothing but "Why don't you know that already?" when we ask a question. You wouldn't do that in a restaurant. You wouldn't call tech support and ask them to fix a problem without giving them details first.

As hypocritical as this sounds, I don't have a problem with playing with telemarketers. They called me. They interrupted me. But I don't intentionally call people and give them a hard time about their job. It'd be like calling McDonald's and asking for Ronald, or asking if they have fries with that. It's pointless and it keeps the employee from working with someone who really wants to talk. And it destroys the call average and lowers our pay.

It's a business. And in any business you're gonna get people who are excellent at their job, and some who aren't, and some who don't care, and some who will be good once they learn.

If anyone wants further information on getting off their marketing lists or how the whole thing works, e-mail me. dataangel@hotmail.com

Data "Miss Cleo signs my paychecks" Angel

"Hello, Mr. Smith? Of 123 Main Street? Yes, this is huginn from the Psychic Fiends Hotline...well, during a routine reading here we came across some information that is of vital importance to you. If you'll just give me your credit card number..."

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You wouldn't do that in a restaurant. You wouldn't call tech support and ask them to fix a problem without giving them details first.

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Of course not, but I've never been to a restaurant or called a tech support place that claimed to read minds or see the future. If psychics could really do these things, they wouldn't need to ask so many questions, now would they? Indeed, I wouldn't have to say a thing if their claims were legitimate:

RING...RING...RING..."Oh, hello Groucho! Thanks for your call! The spirits tell me that you are over 18, so we can continue. Ah, I see you are calling me to see whether or not Suzie has a crush on you. Well, she does and would love it if you'd ask her out! In fact, her favorite restaraunt is The Juicy Steak, and the address is blah blah blah." You get the point.

A friend of mine's mother is a psychic, I've known their entire family for a very long time, and she has done tarot readings for me in the past, some incredibly accurate one's, in fact. One day, a couple of years after having seen, or talked to her last, I got in touch with her, and asked for a reading. She is a phone psychic, because her physical limitations make it hard for her to get around, and it's much easier for her to work out of her home. Since I was a friend, she did the reading for free, and, she was absolutely amazingly accurate with information about the birth of my daughter, when it was going to be, what sex, etc, and I wasn't even pregnant yet. In fact, I did get pregnant shortly after, which would have caused her answer of when the child was to be born, to be way off, but, I had a miscarriage with that one. I did get pregnant again, and, everything that she said to me came true.

We were just talking about these sorts of things in my psych class yesterday, and, with phone psychics isn't not nearly as easy to do, but, a lot of what psychics read, are signals from the person they are reading, as they do it. I am not saying that they don't neccesarily possess these powers, but, those in the trade are extrememly well versed in reading people, through their actions, words, tone of voice, etc. You actually can find out a lot about a person by just paying attention to them, if you know what signals to look for. Heh, my psych teacher even said that he only WISHED that he was as skilled in reading people as most in the psychic/tarot reading/palmistry/etc trades were.

Dizzy "excellent people reader, but not a psychic" Lizard

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Originally posted by Groucho:
Of course not, but I've never been to a restaurant or called a tech support place that claimed to read minds or see the future. If psychics could really do these things, they wouldn't need to ask so many questions, now would they? Indeed, I wouldn't have to say a thing if their claims were legitimate:

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I look at pictures. I ask questions. And yes, I do use the clues I pick up from people's voices, or their body language if I'm doing a face-to-face reading. The whole point is to get people to admit what they already know or are thinking. Sometimes it's easier to talk to a complete stranger on a telephone. Sometimes they don't have anyone else they feel like they can trust.

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The fact is this: these lines pray on the weak-willed.

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And before you come back with "well a psychologist is trained" ... so am I. I'm trained that if I get something more serious than "does Billy like me?" I refer them to the right place. I'm not about to tell someone I can find their missing child, or make their husband stop abusing them, or remove a curse they think they have. I'll gladly give them the number for missing and exploited children, I'll convince them to call the abuse hotline. I'll give them their local number for a real psychiatric professional.

This is the point where you say "Well they're not all that honest." No, they're not. But neither are all doctors, lawyers, car salesmen, computer salesmen, tech support people, or people in general.

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They may be technically legal (due to the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer), but they are still unethical, and a scam.

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It's only unethical when the people doing the reading take money directly from the caller ("Give me 1,000 and I'll remove your curse"). People like that are few and far between. Every day, thousands of people hang up perfectly pleased and feeling their money was well spent. Unfortunately it's only the trash that gets reported.

But then... you don't hear about the thousands of airplanes that take off and land without a hitch, either.

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...I have done many accurate readings -- on the phone and in person...

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Originally posted by Peter S:
So why don't you take James Randi's million bucks?

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Because what I do isn't a "super" power. I'm gonna ask for the prize money just because I know how to talk to people and calm them down and make them think about their life?

"Hey, gimme a million bucks. I look at pictures and make people feel better about themselves."

Yeah. Right.

In many commercials for phone psychics, you watch people dredging up personal details and questions in the hopes that the psychic will have an answer. Unlike a friend, money changes hands. Unlike a psychologist, you are unable to hold the psychic responsible if this advice is erroneous or detrimental. Saying that "other professionals are flawed, that some psychics may give flawed advice, deal with it" is a poor analogy. In most professions, when money changes hands, accountability enters the equation. To whom is a psychic accountable?

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Originally posted by DataAngel:
I interpret cards, tone of voice, and body language. I don't read minds, or affect the weather, or move stuff around without touching it, or walk through walls. That's the X-Men. I'm just a young woman with an offbeat second job to try to make ends meet. There's nothing supernatural or magic about it. It's just what I do, and something I'm very good at.

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I understand completely where you're coming from and will not criticize you for claiming to have supernatural powers.

However...

Don't you ever feel just a tiny bit guilty when you talk to people who clearly don't have the intellectual, rational outlook you do and obviously DO believe that you have a supernatural power?

It's like being a used-car salesman who says "Hey, just because they THINK they're getting a pristine car isn't my problem. Everyone with a brain KNOWS that we just pull out the dents and bondo and repaint them."

In order to be completely honest and ethical, a used-car salesman should volunteer the service history and title history of the car. In order to be completely honest and ethical, you should tell people up front that you can't read minds or see the future.

Jeremy

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Originally posted by Jeremy Thorne:
I understand completely where you're coming from and will not criticize you for claiming to have supernatural powers.

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However...

Don't you ever feel just a tiny bit guilty when you talk to people who clearly don't have the intellectual, rational outlook you do and obviously DO believe that you have a supernatural power?

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In order to be completely honest and ethical, you should tell people up front that you can't read minds or see the future.

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During the reading I make it very clear that anything I "predict" for the future is not guaranteed, and the options I'm presenting are just posibilities.

I never give absolutes. I never say "Quit your job" or "Divorce your husband" or "Your baby will be a girl."

As for accountability? We are accountable. Even with the "for entertainment purposes only" if someone is unhappy with a reading at >any< point during the reading or for a time afterwards, they're free to call customer service. Just like with any other product or service. Callers are given our name and extension at the start and end of each call. If they have a complaint and >have< that information, we >do< hear about it from the supervisors. People >have< been fired for unethical behaviour.

It's Network policy that every reader explain that we can't give specific names and dates. Anyone who doesn't is suspended. There are test calls performed and customer feedback is taken.

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But still... the marketing department is the marketing department. Advertising in all fields is known for outrageous claims.

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which brings me to the ultimate point in the whole argument. ads are crap.

if you are sitting alone in a bar, and you crack open a special brand of frosty, dewy-bottled, beer, the supermodels will don their bikinis, flock all around you to look at your massive beer foam!

Old Navy commercials are ridiculously stupid and the songs are stuck in your head until the following Christmas. not to mention, sitcom stars everywhere wear Old Navy clothes!

using Pantene doesn't make you a supermodel. using Oil of Olay doesn't REALLY make a 90 year old woman look 26 again.

a friend of a friend emails you they have a spectacular deal for you! All you have to do is give them your credit card, PIN, AOL password, and social security number!

it's all gimmicks.

and what's completely apparent is that they work. the more outlandish the better. who cares that you're annoyed? you remember it.

everyone knows who Miss Cleo the psychic is. it doesn't matter whether you believe or disbelieve. the ad is successful.

just my $.02...

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Originally posted by Dawntreader:

and what's completely apparent is that they work. the more outlandish the better. who cares that you're annoyed? you remember it.

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Originally posted by Dawntreader:
and what's completely apparent is that they work. the more outlandish the better. who cares that you're annoyed? you remember it.

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Originally posted by Prometheus:
And while Barbie commercials have the disclaimer "dolls do not actually move on their own", Miss Cleo has "for entertainment purposes only" saving her from the wrath of the FCC for false advertising. The results? Children get sucked into buying Barbie while the weak-willed and insecure call Miss Cleo.

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And we have now completely gotten away from the whole point of my original post -- the advertising is not the fault of the people who read the cards. They're just ads, and most of us are doing a legitimate job. If you don't want the spam, do the same thing you'd do to get rid of any other unwanted marketing materials.

(edited to fix quote codes)

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Originally posted by Mycatateit:
That reminds me... Has anyone ever noticed a disclaimer for the Jerry Springer Show? *for entertaiment purposes only* or how about *No humans or props were actually harmed in the making of this television show*

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Eh, Springer >really< needs the disclaimer "Warning: If you haven't caught on by now that the man is about to find out his girlfriend is really a guy, then you're not smart enough to watch this show."

"Relationship Shockers! Next on Springer." ... it's always "man finds out his girlfriend is a guy" or "man finds out his girlfriend has a girlfriend."

Not that I watch or anything.

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Originally posted by Prometheus:
The results? Children get sucked into buying Barbie while the weak-willed and insecure call Miss Cleo.[/B]

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Yes. that's why they are on T.V. in the first place. however, the whole point of this argument is, you don't go lambasting the Toys R Us clerk because they are selling Barbies that don't actually move.

but false advertising and disclaimers aside, some customers will be satisfied and buy more Barbies. others won't buy another one again. the sun will keep rising and setting whether you buy into it or not.

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I ask questions. And yes, I do use the clues I pick up from people's voices, or their body language if I'm doing a face-to-face reading. The whole point is to get people to admit what they already know or are thinking.

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I know people who can do exactly this same thing. The thing is, they don't charge $2.99 a minute (or whatever it is). And they don't call themselves "psychics."

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Originally posted by Groucho:
I know people who can do exactly this same thing. The thing is, they don't charge $2.99 a minute (or whatever it is). And they don't call themselves "psychics."

They call themselves "friends."

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*sigh*
Can I just state one more time that a lot of the people who call don't feel like they have friends or someone they can trust? They just need someone to talk to and for whatever reason they don't have someone in their life that they feel close to, or that they don't think can give them an impartial answer.

I have friends who can repair my computer, but sometimes I have to pay someone to fix it for me. I have friends who can cook, but sometimes I like to go to a restaurant. My mom will give me Tylenol and a bandaid for free, but sometimes I need to see a doctor. I can talk about problems with my friends, but sometimes I need someone completely removed from the situation to talk to.

Anyhow the point of the section that you quoted was to prove that I'm not doing anything that's special or magic or supernatural or unethical.

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Originally posted by Dawntreader:
everyone knows who Miss Cleo the psychic is. it doesn't matter whether you believe or disbelieve. the ad is successful.

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*raises hand* I don't know who Miss Cleo the psychic is, should I? When I think of phone psychics, I think of the psychic friends network/dionne warwick, or my friend's mother, although I know her personally, so, my thinking of her has nothing to do with advertising.

Dizzy "dionne is not a good spokesmodel for the psychic friends network, she grates on my nerves" Lizard

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Originally posted by DizzyLizard:
*raises hand* I don't know who Miss Cleo the psychic is, should I?
Dizzy "dionne is not a good spokesmodel for the psychic friends network, she grates on my nerves" Lizard

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Be glad you don't. She's sitting in this combination Tiki hut/Medieval dungeon, with thick incense smoke swirling around and doing some sort of spread no one I know can figure out. She's got a Jamaican accent... except sometimes it turns into Scottish.

Now, as for "preying on the feeble-minded"....well, it's immoral to allow a sucker to keep his money.

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Originally posted by Groucho:
Hmm...the only questions I've seen on IRC are "a/s/l?" and "r u a girl?" If you need Miss Cleo to answer those, you truly are feeble-minded!

Grou "Old/Yes/Anwhere but Here" Cho

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You forgot my favourite...