Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Roadie: Oh, let's give it a try, hon! You know I love you! *kiss*
Well, I have always wanted to move to California ... but what would TGirl have to say about this?
Oh, Moeko: Stereotypes. Definitely stereotypes, all the way. I've met one person like the Fab 5. Most of my gay friends have little sense of fashion/decor and really don't care about pop culture. (These friends are all into music, but that's true of all my straight friends, too.)
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Considering the hundreds of gay people i've known in my life - not because I'm one of Falwell's nightmares, but because I worked for several progressive non-profits in the Pacific Northwest (a milieu that is just CRAWLING with homos and homettes), I would say that while they may or may not be "playing to the camera," they're certainly not what could be called a true "cross-section" of gaydom (Is that a word? Is now!)
There's a reason those guys were chosen for the gig - they embody the "safe" stereotype that America is willing to accept - swishy, non-threatening, and full of campy wit. They're "Just Jack" for the make-over crowd.
I wonder if prime-time would be ready for a real cross-section of LGBT people.
-------------------- A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
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Thank you, Canuckistan. Thank you, Orpheum. *goes merrily on her way, having gained new knowledge*
-------------------- We are all equal, be it before the eyes of God, or for our own sake. We are all worthy of the same fundamental rights, freedoms, and, protections. Mindless hatred is unjustifiable. -Squoval Posts: 320 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ojrocks: [QUOTE]1. Regarding style and design, I have no sense of style whatsoever. I have to have people dress me if I want to look like I know what's going on ^_^ One reason, perhaps, is that society doesn't put us in a stranglehold of what is masculine as gay, we're assumed to be feminine, so it's ok for us to explore areas tht are usually claimed to be feminie, ie. style, fashion, designing.
Also, Niner said something to the same effect.
Well, I wonder if there isn't something to that. I realize my experience is by no means representative of the entire world, but nevertheless, when you only know ONE straight male ID amongst all the ones you know, and you know quite a few, you wonder why that is. I guess straight guys are not encouraged to explore design? Because look at fashion. Many of the famous male designers are gay, in greater proportion than the general population. What is causing that?
I'm not trying to hold to stereotypes, but in my world, I go back and forth from the arts community to the "normal: world and gay people most definitely have a bigger presence in the arts. That's not just my impression either. Maybe that's an illusion because they feel safer being out of the closet in the artistic community? Or what? I wonder.
ETA of course if a guy doesn't swish you might not realize he's gay, if you don't know him well.
I do, actually, try never to assume things - I'm still trying to figure out if two clients of mine, who bought a house together, and who are both slightly swishy, are gay, or if they are just roomates who wanted to buy a house together. Because the only thing I know for sure is that they live together, and they are really into decorating. But I damn sure am not going to ask. In either case, they are a delight to work for so I don't care.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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Anyone remember that Saturday Night Live skit, "Lyle, the effeminate heterosexual?"
-I hope I'm not offending anybody in any of my posts, I'm just curious about this too and I don't have any gay men friends I'm close enough to ask such personal stuff.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps
posted
quote:Originally posted by Rainmom: I've always wanted to ask....why is it that some gay men "talk gay"? You know, lispy, feminine etc. Is it something done on purpose or does it just happen? Some gay guys I know don't talk that way at all and a some I know do, but I don't know them well enough to ask why.
Rainmom
I have noticed that, too; while it's not nice to stereotype, I have indeed seen gay men who, I like to say, "talk like Truman Capote."
I recall a gay man saying something about how that's partly "learned behavior," i.e., from other gays, and that, for instance, a young gay man brought up in a small town with little contact with other gays, doesn't talk that way.
Well, I wonder if there isn't something to that. I realize my experience is by no means representative of the entire world, but nevertheless, when you only know ONE straight male ID amongst all the ones you know, and you know quite a few, you wonder why that is. I guess straight guys are not encouraged to explore design? Because look at fashion. Many of the famous male designers are gay, in greater proportion than the general population. What is causing that?
I'm not trying to hold to stereotypes, but in my world, I go back and forth from the arts community to the "normal: world and gay people most definitely have a bigger presence in the arts. That's not just my impression either. Maybe that's an illusion because they feel safer being out of the closet in the artistic community? Or what? I wonder.
I was also under the impression that gays tend to be in "the arts" or certain other jobs in part because historically they chose jobs where they felt likely to be accepted. A gay male ballet dancer 30 years ago might not be as likely to be laughed at as much as a gay male in some other jobs. But I admit I don't know.
posted
Can't remember where I heard/read this as it was quite a long time ago, but the gist was that in homosexual couples there tends to be a feminine side and a masculine side, which explained why there were some "feminine gays" and some "butch lesbians". A feminine male would tend to pair up with a masculine male, likewise for the lesbian couples. They had to balance out the male:female equation.
-------------------- I'm an excellent speller, but a lousy typist. "Just so you know, the words 'just' and 'cramps' - they don't go together." - Ginger Snaps Posts: 323 | From: Chandler, AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Regarding the over the top-ness of the Fab 5, I saw a counter-example to this on either a Dateline or 20/20. They had a group of men on stage who introduced themselves and gave a tidbit of information, such as line of work. The audience was then asked to pick who was straight, and who was gay. Almost everyone prior to voting thought they had this exceptional gaydar, but the results showed that no one was able to pick better than random chance at sexual orientation. It was really interesting - there was one man whom EVERYONE put as straight, but was actually gay.
So although you (general you) may meet a man that is outright "I know he's gay", you probably meet 10 other men through the course of the day that are gay, but just don't "show". Because these men (unless they are your close friends) probably aren't sharing their sexual orientation with you, you may automatically put them into the "straight" box.
In other words, the "lispy" gay man is a small subset of the gay population, but is a bit more overt, therefore, you "see" him more, and may lead you to think that all gay men fit this category. Rather, it should be, "many men that I'm certain are gay" fit this category, but it in no way amounts to more than, say, 10%* of the gay community.
*ETA - Stat completely made up - I was just using it as an example. It could very well be higher/lower!
-------------------- I don't want some pretty face to tell me pretty lies, all I want is someone to believe. Posts: 1535 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:I'm not trying to hold to stereotypes, but in my world, I go back and forth from the arts community to the "normal: world and gay people most definitely have a bigger presence in the arts. That's not just my impression either. Maybe that's an illusion because they feel safer being out of the closet in the artistic community? Or what? I wonder.
I was also under the impression that gays tend to be in "the arts" or certain other jobs in part because historically they chose jobs where they felt likely to be accepted. A gay male ballet dancer 30 years ago might not be as likely to be laughed at as much as a gay male in some other jobs.
I know it's not my imagination that one tends to run into more gay men in music and theater. I'm not just thinking of one or two isolated incidents, but many classes and groups I've been part of over the years. My husband (who's straight...even after seeing "Brokeback Mountain"!) is more immersed in the arts than I am, having majored in music and done a lot of university and community theater, and he's noticed the same thing, even when he was attending a conservative Baptist university. It's nothing something we really dwell on--well, except in conversations like this--but it's just the way things are (or seem to be). I've been observing this trend since, I don't know, 1980 or so, and in my observation it's remained consistent. For example, last weekend my daughter was in a high school musical, and of the approximately 12 males involved in the show (including the teachers/directors and cast but excluding crew), I know at least five (two adults and three teenagers) to be openly gay.
I can imagine that at one time this trend occurred because the arts were seen as a rare "safe" haven for homosexuals...but with society having becoming more tolerant toward homosexuality, and openly gay people becoming much more visible in all professions and spheres of life, couldn't we expect the trend to slow a bit? Please don't misunderstand--I don't mean to imply that there's still not a lot of bigotry and discrimination out there. But I live in a small, predominately conservative Christian town in the Southern U. S., and my high school aged kids could probably name at least 15 openly gay classmates without even pausing to think. Back in the 70s, I don't think my brother ever dreamed of coming out at age 14 or 15.
quote:Originally posted by Roadie: Oh, let's give it a try, hon! You know I love you! *kiss*
Well, I have always wanted to move to California ... but what would TGirl have to say about this?
TGirl knows she's welcome. I mean, I'm more concerned about what my husband and kids would say, but I'm willing to give it a shot if one of you can cook.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nwataya: I posted this article once before, but it has a thought experiment that could potentially be the answer to why so many gay guys fit the stereotype. There could be a cause/effect operating here that isn't obvious at first. For the relevant scenario, skim down to the section about 2/3 of the way down entitled "Putting the Pieces Together":
You can buy into that theory as much or as little as you want. I just hope you recognize the source of the artical (National Association For Research And Therapy Of Homosexuality) and the nature of the site it is posted on (Leadership U which is associated with Christian Leadership Ministries and Campus Crusade for Christ) and look for less biased sources before coming to any conclusions.
From what I could tell the whole point of that article was to provide support to the idea of prevention and/or treatment of homosexuality.
quote:Originally posted by Kev: You can buy into that theory as much or as little as you want. I just hope you recognize the source of the artical (National Association For Research And Therapy Of Homosexuality) and the nature of the site it is posted on (Leadership U which is associated with Christian Leadership Ministries and Campus Crusade for Christ) and look for less biased sources before coming to any conclusions.
From what I could tell the whole point of that article was to provide support to the idea of prevention and/or treatment of homosexuality.
That's not the source of the article, and the site that it's posted on is completely irrelevant. The source of the article is Jeffrey Satinover, who has the following credentials:
Jeffrey Burke Satinover, M.D. is a psychiatrist and psychopharmacologist in private practice in Westport, Connecticut. He is a diplomat of the C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich and of the American Board of Neurology and Psychiatry, and past-president of the C.G. Jung Foundation of New York. Dr. Satinover holds degrees from M.I.T. (S.B.), Harvard (Ed.M.) the University of Texas (M.D.) and Yale (M.S.) He is a former fellow (resident) in psychiatry and child psychiatry at Yale where he was twice awarded the department of psychiatry’s Seymour Lustman Residency Research Prize. He was the 1975 William James Lecturer at Harvard. He is the author of many scientific and psychoanalytic articles, as well as seven books.
Now, that being said, all he offered was a theory. If you feel the theory was incorrect or biased, explain why. But don't make an ad hominem attack that doesn't address the truthfulness of the theory at all (you just get irrelevant credentials thrown back at you).
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As far as the theory goes, the idea was that some boys are born with certain inherent tendencies, such as being more sensitive than other boys, more artistically inclined, or have a greater aesthetic sense (or, for the purpose of the current argument, perhaps they have a higher-pitched voice or more effeminate mannerisms). Perhaps they also have a heightened response to anxiety, which could be connected or completely unrelated to the other characteristics. Such characteristics could potentially (not always or even most of the time) cause the point to be someone outcast by his male peers, or perhaps mistreated by a nonunderstanding father. The potential for being a victim of sexual abuse is also there. The failure to have close male relationships among peers or his father could potentially (not always) cause him to seek other male relationships or experiment with homosexuality, especially if he is plagued by anxiety about who he is. If the homosexual relations meet the need that was previous unfulfilled, then they would relieve that anxiety. The theory goes on from there detailing the interplay between societal treatment, longing for male companionship, and relief of anxiety through sexual stimulation. It just seems like it could make sense as a model.
Again, he only postulated this as a model for why some people may end up identifying with a homosexual orientation - there are a huge spectrum of people who claim all sexualities.
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Growing up, I was often mistaken for being gay. Mostly because I would do certain things in feminine ways - gestures, the way I spoke, sat, stood, my lack of interest in things like sports and cars, and so on. But of course that's all just people judging me by their own preconceived stereotypes of what a gay person is. To paraphrase Canuck, I know I'm straight simply because seeing a man naked does nothing for me.
Otoh, I am transgendered, so if being attracted to women whilst simultaneously wishing I were a woman makes me gay, then so be it.
Meanwhile, my boss at work is gay. He follows none of the feminine stereotypes. In fact, he's quite macho. He enjoys working out at the gym and going to bars. He is in a monogamous relationship, and has been so for several years. His boyfriend, however, does follow a lot of the stereotypes. I've seen this a lot in fiction - one gay partner is macho, the other is feminine. But this is the first time I've seen it in real life, so I have to wonder if there's anything to it.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rainmom: I've always wanted to ask....why is it that some gay men "talk gay"? You know, lispy, feminine etc. Is it something done on purpose or does it just happen? Some gay guys I know don't talk that way at all and a some I know do, but I don't know them well enough to ask why.
Rainmom
I have noticed that, too; while it's not nice to stereotype, I have indeed seen gay men who, I like to say, "talk like Truman Capote."
I recall a gay man saying something about how that's partly "learned behavior," i.e., from other gays, and that, for instance, a young gay man brought up in a small town with little contact with other gays, doesn't talk that way.
Thanks.
Bill
My high-school friend D was raised in a smallish town in Ohio in the 1960's and 1970's, with no contact with other gays, in a family where being gay was not readily accepted. He "talked like Truman Capote," (not quite as high-pitched) and had other "swishy" mannerisms. Other kids' hateful reactions to those mannerisms caused him great pain in high school, when he was not only closeted but in denial. I can only assume that in his case, they were innate.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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Remember my posts are all from my own experience:
More often than not, the "gay" acting people that are actually gay are only like that in certain situations. One of the "gayest" acting ones is a security guard in a maximum security prison. I guarantee you he doesn't act like that at work or in family situations, but at the gay bar or a friends party he opens his mouth and out comes a purse.
When I was younger I thought that because I was gay I *HAD* to act that way. But now, no one believes me when I say I am gay. I had to bring my SO and make out in front of someone to convince him. I think the same thing is in effect, some people feel they have to because it's a steereotype. Another reason I think, maybe, is it's not as easy to meet another homosexual as it is to meet someone of the opposite sex. A straight guy knows he can go up to a girl he likes to ask her out, and have a good chance she is straight. However if I went up to every guy I liked, I'd probably get in a few fights. However, if I act a little gay here or there, the other gay person can come up to me.
I don't think there is one, or even just a few reasons for it. It's a lot more complex than it seems.
Posts: 60 | From: Johnston City, IL | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by nwataya: That's not the source of the article, and the site that it's posted on is completely irrelevant. The source of the article is Jeffrey Satinover, who has the following credentials:
Yes, I realize he is the author of the article, but look at the top of the page:
quote:NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR RESEARCH AND THERAPY OF HOMOSEXUALITY
and
quote:Source: Collected Papers from the NARTH Annual Conference, Saturday, 29 July 1995.
The author of the article is associated with that group. It doesn't matter what degrees he holds or where he got them. I am suspect of any research or theories that come from that group or anyone associated with it if there is not independent findings that support it.
My intent in pointing out the source of the information and the nature of the site that you linked to was to ensure you realized the information was not coming from an independent, unbiased source. Judging from your defensiveness, it seems you were already aware of that.
I made no judgements about the bias or correctness of the article itself so I don't need to explain anything. I just pointed out that the source of the article (NARTH who Satinover is associated with) is biased in that it has a clear philosophy and opinions regarding homosexuality and the treatment thereof.
posted
In addition to NARTH being completely in disagreement with peer-reviewed science, Satinover's book "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" was written in 1993 citing studies that have long since been discredited by the American Psychological Association, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers among others.
Fundie pCms like to cite Satinover's book as a compassionate look at the cause of the "homosexual burden" and who just want to see their loved ones "cured."
Funny that Satinover has now aligned himself with JZ Knight and appears in a significant portion of "What the Bleep Do We Know?" which, while thought-provoking, can hardly be considered "science."
Satinover may have the best of intentions, but his extrapolations from anecdotal observations of his patients runs counter to the extrapolations from anecdotal observations provided by other scientists (ones who aren't aligned with 35,000-year-old Atlanteans.)
I don't put much credence in his work as being definitive.
If homos and homettes wish to think of themselves as "sick" and in need of a "cure," that's between them, their doctor and their DoC (Diety of Choice.) But please give the world a large break - this man's work *isn't* science.
-------------------- A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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quote:Originally posted by Elsie: Can't remember where I heard/read this as it was quite a long time ago, but the gist was that in homosexual couples there tends to be a feminine side and a masculine side, which explained why there were some "feminine gays" and some "butch lesbians". A feminine male would tend to pair up with a masculine male, likewise for the lesbian couples. They had to balance out the male:female equation.
You don't seriously believe this, do you? This sounds just like that "opposites attract" line. Guess what? They often don't.
For the record, I'm a rather masculine guy (i.e., I work out, I watch baseball, hockey and pro wrestling, and I'm a slob). I prefer the same in a partner. I have no need to balance out this mythical "male:female equation", thankyouverymuch.
And, BTW, what is a male:female equation?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Elsie: Can't remember where I heard/read this as it was quite a long time ago, but the gist was that in homosexual couples there tends to be a feminine side and a masculine side, which explained why there were some "feminine gays" and some "butch lesbians". A feminine male would tend to pair up with a masculine male, likewise for the lesbian couples. They had to balance out the male:female equation.
You don't seriously believe this, do you? This sounds just like that "opposites attract" line. Guess what? They often don't.
For the record, I'm a rather masculine guy (i.e., I work out, I watch baseball, hockey and pro wrestling, and I'm a slob). I prefer the same in a partner. I have no need to balance out this mythical "male:female equation", thankyouverymuch.
And, BTW, what is a male:female equation?
I have to agree with you here. I'm not sure why the need to sterotype the people in the relationship to gender roles, other than to somehow shoehorn them into the "traditional" makeup of a household. Part of falling in love with a man is, well, they are a man. If one of us had to take on the role of female, that seems kind of self defeating.
-------------------- On the crusade to eliminate Moral Asshattery wherever it exists Member: AAMAH Posts: 2940 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Part of falling in love with a man is, well, they are a man. If one of us had to take on the role of female, that seems kind of self defeating.
QFT - but I know many *MANY* that do fall into that.
Maybe it's just one of those "it takes all kinds" things. Maybe it's because one partner, falling into the "femmy" category, is easier to identify and therefore we think of it as more normative.
I mean, for all any of us know, those two jocks tossing a football in the park may be tossing more than that around under the sheets, but we assume they're hetero becuase of our own preconceptions of "what gay is."
-------------------- A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: To paraphrase Canuck, I know I'm straight simply because seeing a man naked does nothing for me.
Dude, that's not how it works. You know you are straight because seeing a naked man does something to you. Makes you want to flee in panic and scratch your eyes out at the same time.
-------------------- "The system would also let you send your picture and contact details to a rough trade gay contact mailing list saying you like to be surprised with power tools in a non-consensual role play scenario – but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD do it.!" Posts: 298 | From: Monterrey, Mexico | Registered: May 2005
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quote: However, we prefer vaginal sex; these others are "side dishes," if you will.
Got a mouse in your pocket, bub? Sure, that might be true of most straight guys, but I know a couple of dudes who would MUCH rather have either oral or anal.
(And for anyone who honestly thinks that anal sex is some sort of punishment for a woman, a. you're not doing it right, b. you need to look into the concept of lube, and c. I feel sorry for anybody you manage to get into bed in general.)
I'm sorry, but that's kinda bullpucky. There are many women who aren't into anal sexand it is a punishment for them, regardless how how much practice, lube, or experience their partner has.
-------------------- Of course this land is dangerous! All of the animals are capably murderous. Especially the penguins.
i'm a figment of my own imagination, sometimes i don't exist Posts: 1099 | From: Kitsap County, WA | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by snapdragonfly: Anyone remember that Saturday Night Live skit, "Lyle, the effeminate heterosexual?"
Yes. I also remember a skit with Alec Baldwin where he is listening to his voicemail recording and he doesn't know he has an effeminate voice. Pretty funny stuff.
Robbiev -is he a gay straight man or a straight gay man?- 427 (10 pts for the reference)
-------------------- Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"
Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go. Posts: 1820 | From: Memphis, TN | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Otoh, I am transgendered, so if being attracted to women whilst simultaneously wishing I were a woman makes me gay, then so be it.
Praying that I don't come across as having to pin a label or somesuch, or presuming to know what anyone thinks/ feels, my *personal* feeling would be that you are a lesbian stuck with the wrong "equipment" so to speak?
-------------------- "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Spooky Cactus
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
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quote:Originally posted by kmcm:I'm sorry, but that's kinda bullpucky. There are many women who aren't into anal sexand it is a punishment for them, regardless how how much practice, lube, or experience their partner has. [/QB]
One would kinda hope there isn't someone using it as a 'punishment'. Unless, of course, the girl is into being 'punished' and gives her consent, but if she is, it's not really a punishment, is it?
As for the 'balancing the male-female equation' thing, it may happen to look like that with some couples, but in general it's bull. If lesbians wanted a man, they'd get one, ditto for gay guys. It's just stereotyping to assume all relationships have to be male-female and all gays want to be the other gender.
-------------------- 'When the world is dead and gone, we will still be Rocking On!' (J.P.McCartney) Posts: 154 | From: Yorkshire, England | Registered: May 2006
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I think the preponderance of gay men in fashion, design, art and theater is largely due to those areas not being considered typical paths for a man to follow. It isn't that there are more gay men, per se, but rather that there are less straight men.
Posts: 494 | From: Epping, Essex, UK | Registered: Sep 2005
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Half of the people who meet my SO think he is gay. I thought he was gay. However, he is completely straight, much to my chagrin. He is very sensitive, sweet, and.... flouncy. You'd have to meet him to understand I suppose.
-------------------- Whereas as you are dancing happily in the fields of ignorance through which the stream of stupidity bubbles and flows. -BlushingBride My my space. Posts: 656 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote: Like how you could have missed that was beyond me, but I said, "God, I hope so!" (blank stares from them)then I said "Who would hire a straight guy to do their house? It'd be all Nascar posters and nude centerfolds and antlers." The painter said "Whut'd be wrong with that?" and I said, "I rest my case." snap"I am sure they exist but have yet to meet a straight guy with any taste or interest in decorating" dragonfly.
I'm a straight guy, I studied art and design for 6 years in University, I've had several interior decorating jobs and not a single one included nascar posters or antlers. ...just sayin'... Posts: 156 | From: Varna, Bulgaria | Registered: Apr 2005
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Spooky Cactus
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
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quote:Originally posted by snapdragonfly: Once, in a house I was working on, the straight painter (by that I mean he just did plain painting, not his sexual orientation -heh) and the housekeeper were in a huddle in the kitchen, and when I walked in they asked me if I thought that "S" (the interior designer) was gay.
Like how you could have missed that was beyond me, but I said, "God, I hope so!" (blank stares from them) then I said "Who would hire a straight guy to do their house? It'd be all Nascar posters and nude centerfolds and antlers."
The painter said "Whut'd be wrong with that?" and I said, "I rest my case."
snap"I am sure they exist but have yet to meet a straight guy with any taste or interest in decorating" dragonfly.
eta to clarify.
I know loads, but then I work in a theatre.
Whenever people say the 'Fab 5' I always think they're talking about the Beatles and Brian Epstein. Who, on topic for a moment, was very much gay (John said they should rename Hey Jude 'Gay Jew' in his honour) but definitely didn't swish.
-------------------- 'When the world is dead and gone, we will still be Rocking On!' (J.P.McCartney) Posts: 154 | From: Yorkshire, England | Registered: May 2006
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I'd just like to hijack briefly to say this whole thread is very interesting- where to ask all the questions you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask because you didn't want to offend anyone.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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My first boyfriend was very effeminate with a lisp. We lived in a very small town with no "visible" gay people to be role models. We had sex...lots of it. He came out about two years after we broke up. I always thought that was why he treated me like crap...he was gay, didn't know it, and he was messed up, and his parents were assholes, but that's another story. I never saw him in person again after he came out, but I was told he was much more flamboyant then he had been previously (and really he was pretty swishy even then.) He, sadly, contracted AIDS, and died in the middle/late 80's. I don't think he (at least) was swishy because of expectations; it was just part of who he was.
P&LL, Syl
-------------------- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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There's something I've always been curious about
I used to drive a taxi in my town and in this town there are three "gay" bars...two all male and one all female
In the male gay bars there is a smattering of women but they are all "fag hags"(don't jump on my butt about that term as this is what they refer to themselves as and so do the gay guys too)...there are NO lesbians in the male gay bars
In the one female gay bar in about 100 pickups at that bar(you always had to go inside to get your fare)...I never not even once saw a single male(gay or not)...in fact when I'd open the door and ask who called for a cab every woman in the place would turn and stare at me and I could feel a wave of what I'll call "unwelcomeness" directed at me...this was the same the first time I picked up there and the 99th time even when they all knew why I was there
Why don't gay guys and lesbians hang together in bars at all?
This has been my experience and if this isn't the way it is elsewhere let me know...I have no bone to pick either way I'm just curious
Posts: 100 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2006
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