snopes.com Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » SLC Central » Soapbox Derby » Former President Gerald Ford dies at 93 (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7   
Author Topic: Former President Gerald Ford dies at 93
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Bravo didn't exist in 1995, Lainie [Wink]

But, I think that the pardoning of Nixon was probably wise in the short-term, but, in the long term, I think it was at best, a neutral act, at worse, it was a negative.

I think that a trial would've gotten the attention of those who would cheat at elections, and, perhaps, real, substantive campaign finance reforms would have occurred because of it.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lainie   E-mail Lainie   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Bravo didn't exist in 1995, Lainie [Wink]

HBO or TBS, then. [Smile]

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 602 posted      Profile for Canuckistan   E-mail Canuckistan   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Bravo didn't exist in 1995, Lainie [Wink]

It did up here. Unless you're discounting the experiences of 33 million Canadians.

Why do you hate Canada? [Razz]

--------------------
People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Bravo didn't exist in 1995, Lainie [Wink]

It did up here. Unless you're discounting the experiences of 33 million Canadians.

Why do you hate Canada? [Razz]

There are so many Canadian Bacon moments I could put here...

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
I think that a trial would've gotten the attention of those who would cheat at elections, and, perhaps, real, substantive campaign finance reforms would have occurred because of it.

Enough of the people involved CREEP and the Nixon administration went to jail that you would think that they wouldn't cheat again. But those people only spawned the likes of Karl Rove.

I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
I think that a trial would've gotten the attention of those who would cheat at elections, and, perhaps, real, substantive campaign finance reforms would have occurred because of it.

Enough of the people involved CREEP and the Nixon administration went to jail that you would think that they wouldn't cheat again. But those people only spawned the likes of Karl Rove.

I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

Perhaps I am, but 30+ years later, and the same people are doing the same things, so, as I said, the best the pardon did was to a neutral effect.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
24K_ Kate
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


Icon 1 posted      Profile for 24K_ Kate   Author's Homepage   E-mail 24K_ Kate   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Am I the only one that keeps hearing the SNL skit, "Gerald Ford senselessly mauled by tigers..."?

Or eaten by wolves. He was delicious.. We had just watched that one (It's on the Best Of Dany Carvey DVD) a couple of days before, so it was quite fresh in my mind...

--------------------
<---Callisto

I have a 60 second snack idea for Rachel (Ray): Xanax, vodka, fall asleep.--Adrianne Frost, Best Week Ever.

Posts: 2374 | From: Naw-fik, VA y'all | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lainie   E-mail Lainie   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

Perhaps I am, but 30+ years later, and the same people are doing the same things, so, as I said, the best the pardon did was to a neutral effect.
A neutral effect in terms of achieving campaign finance reform, yes. But that wasn't Ford's goal. His goal was national healing, and I think it's a little facile to dismiss that as short-term concern.

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:


I would be interested to know how US snopesters compare, say, Pres. Ford's support of Suharto with Pres. Carter's refusal to support the Shah of Iran. Was a policy of "better the devil you know" vindicated by history, do you think? Or must the answer necessarily be more nuanced, perhaps?

I'd have to go with more nuanced. It's hard to say exactly what would have happened if the US had demanded that Suharto not use American weapons in his invasion, but I see no reason to believe it would have led to the fall of his government.

So far I've heard two defences of Ford's behavior while in Indonesia. One is that any other US president would have done the same. the other is that it was the Cold War and Ford and Kissinger worried about the domino effect. Now, neither of the these is any sort of defence of a clearly illegal decision that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

But did the domino effect even enter into their thinking? Sure, the US worried about leftist governments around the world, but the East Timorese invasion wasn't really part of some grand US strategy. When asked about his meeting with Suharto by a journalist, Ford couldn't even remember having discussed the upcoming invasion. He doesn't seem to have given the matter much thought at all, really.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/27/1638254

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Publius
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Publius     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
In all seriousness, could someone explain to me what is meant by the idea that Ford's pardon of Nixon fostered "national healing"?

As far as I can tell, "national healing" necessary because the electorate didn't want to come to grips with the fact that it had been bamboozled by a gang of criminals. It achieved this "national healing" by sweeping the whole matter under the rug and moving on as though everything else was perfectly normal.

The practical effect of this "national healing" was twofold. First, it reinforced Nixon's "imperial presidency," sending a clear signal that the President and his cronies were above the law--that the individual and partisan interests of the President and his advisors were indistinguishable from the interests of the United States. Second, it let the nation wallow in the pleasant fiction that this problem had been excised with Nixon himself, when in fact the problem was (and remains) much more deeply entrenched within certain quarters of national politics.

It doesn't seem like an accident that the criminals responsible for Iran-Contra in the next decade got away with it, retaining positions as respected and influential right-wing political figures. Nor does it seem like an accident that these old Iran-Contra figures have spent the last five years influencing a presidential administration headed by men (Rumsfeld and Cheney) who began consolidating their power under Ford.

"National healing" isn't healthy if its purpose is just to pretend that a lingering national cancer no longer exists. If that wasn't what "national healing" was really about, then what did Ford's pardon of Nixon actually accomplish?

Posts: 1640 | From: New Haven, CT | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
But did the domino effect even enter into their thinking? Sure, the US worried about leftist governments around the world, but the East Timorese invasion wasn't really part of some grand US strategy. When asked about his meeting with Suharto by a journalist, Ford couldn't even remember having discussed the upcoming invasion. He doesn't seem to have given the matter much thought at all, really.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/27/1638254

From your link:
quote:
And in fact, the US CIA station even gave a list of 5,000 names of people who they had identified as communists and potential opponents of the army, and they turned this list over to Suharto and his military intelligence people and many of those people were subsequently assassinated.
During the Cold War, and especially after the communist victory in Vietnam, the USA foreign policy was all about killing communists. If you killed communists, you were a FOUSA. Doesn't matter what else you did or who else you killed. It was that simple.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
During the Cold War, and especially after the communist victory in Vietnam, the USA foreign policy was all about killing communists. If you killed communists, you were a FOUSA. Doesn't matter what else you did or who else you killed. It was that simple.

The part you quoted was preceded by this:

"And from the period of 1965 to 67, when General Suharto was consolidating his power, his army and groups working with the army carried out a mass slaughter of Indonesian civilians. It's not clear exactly how many were killed, but anywhere from 400,000 to perhaps more than a million Indonesians were massacred as the Suharto regime gained power. And they did this, the military did this with US weaponry."

Which is to say that it was referring to a period that ended 8 years before the invasion of East Timor.

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Publius:
In all seriousness, could someone explain to me what is meant by the idea that Ford's pardon of Nixon fostered "national healing"?


Probably not, if you haven't understood from Lainie's and my posts so far.

quote:

The practical effect of this "national healing" was twofold. First, it reinforced Nixon's "imperial presidency," sending a clear signal that the President and his cronies were above the law--that the individual and partisan interests of the President and his advisors were indistinguishable from the interests of the United States. Second, it let the nation wallow in the pleasant fiction that this problem had been excised with Nixon himself, when in fact the problem was (and remains) much more deeply entrenched within certain quarters of national politics.


You really need to try to understand the era instead of spinning what happened to fit the ideas you have. You are so wrong on your speculation that I have to believe you don't know much about the the time period under discussion.

quote:
It doesn't seem like an accident that the criminals responsible for Iran-Contra in the next decade got away with it, retaining positions as respected and influential right-wing political figures. Nor does it seem like an accident that these old Iran-Contra figures have spent the last five years influencing a presidential administration headed by men (Rumsfeld and Cheney) who began consolidating their power under Ford.

I believe that it was fear of another Watergate-like episode caused many people to stick their heads in the sand. They didn't want to go through that national nightmare again and the best way to prevent that was to ignore Iran-Contra as much as possible. Besides, Reagan was a lot more likable than Nixon.

quote:
"National healing" isn't healthy if its purpose is just to pretend that a lingering national cancer no longer exists. If that wasn't what "national healing" was really about, then what did Ford's pardon of Nixon actually accomplish?
It ended Watergate. Nothing more, nothing less. And the country needed Watergate to be over.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
During the Cold War, and especially after the communist victory in Vietnam, the USA foreign policy was all about killing communists. If you killed communists, you were a FOUSA. Doesn't matter what else you did or who else you killed. It was that simple.

The part you quoted was preceded by this:

"And from the period of 1965 to 67, when General Suharto was consolidating his power, his army and groups working with the army carried out a mass slaughter of Indonesian civilians. It's not clear exactly how many were killed, but anywhere from 400,000 to perhaps more than a million Indonesians were massacred as the Suharto regime gained power. And they did this, the military did this with US weaponry."

Which is to say that it was referring to a period that ended 8 years before the invasion of East Timor.

It didn't matter what the dictators of the world did, as long as they were USA allies. Kill anyone, plunder anything, just don't align your country with the communists.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
It didn't matter what the dictators of the world did, as long as they were USA allies. Kill anyone, plunder anything, just don't align your country with the communists.

There was no danger of Suharto aligning his country with communists, so I'm not sure where this came from.

At any rate, I was curious on the first page how the Ford's supposed decency could be reconciled with his East Timor policy. If his foreign policy was merely the one you outlined above, then regardless of which other presidents followed such a policy, shouldn't we rethink his decency?

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

Perhaps I am, but 30+ years later, and the same people are doing the same things, so, as I said, the best the pardon did was to a neutral effect.
A neutral effect in terms of achieving campaign finance reform, yes. But that wasn't Ford's goal. His goal was national healing, and I think it's a little facile to dismiss that as short-term concern.
Except that the nation heals. It healed after Teapot Dome, it healed after "Remember the Maine!", it healed after the Civil War, and I contend that Watergate was a hell of a lot less injurious than that.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
There was no danger of Suharto aligning his country with communists, so I'm not sure where this came from.


During the Cold War, the world was divided into two parts -- Us and Them. If you weren't Them, you were Us and if you were Us you had the USA's support in whatever you wanted to do. Flirt with the Them, and you will find yourself out and a new dictator in charge of your country. That's where that came from.

quote:
At any rate, I was curious on the first page how the Ford's supposed decency could be reconciled with his East Timor policy. If his foreign policy was merely the one you outlined above, then regardless of which other presidents followed such a policy, shouldn't we rethink his decency?
No. You seem to be missing the whole point about why people are calling him "decent". And you don't understand foreign policy during the Cold War.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

Perhaps I am, but 30+ years later, and the same people are doing the same things, so, as I said, the best the pardon did was to a neutral effect.
A neutral effect in terms of achieving campaign finance reform, yes. But that wasn't Ford's goal. His goal was national healing, and I think it's a little facile to dismiss that as short-term concern.
Except that the nation heals. It healed after Teapot Dome, it healed after "Remember the Maine!", it healed after the Civil War, and I contend that Watergate was a hell of a lot less injurious than that.
I guess you had to be there.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
There was no danger of Suharto aligning his country with communists, so I'm not sure where this came from.


During the Cold War, the world was divided into two parts -- Us and Them. If you weren't Them, you were Us and if you were Us you had the USA's support in whatever you wanted to do. Flirt with the Them, and you will find yourself out and a new dictator in charge of your country. That's where that came from.

quote:
At any rate, I was curious on the first page how the Ford's supposed decency could be reconciled with his East Timor policy. If his foreign policy was merely the one you outlined above, then regardless of which other presidents followed such a policy, shouldn't we rethink his decency?
No. You seem to be missing the whole point about why people are calling him "decent". And you don't understand foreign policy during the Cold War.

I have to tell you, your responses are becoming less and less substantive. People are calling Ford decent and I show that he supported an illegal invasion that resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. You tell me I don't understand why people think him decent. That's really not much of a response, when you think about it.

Then you point out that the US had a vicious Cold War policy. I point out that yes, it was, and in fact I've pointed to one example of how vicious it could be. And the president behind such a policy, I say, couldn't be decent. You accuse me of not understanding Cold War policy.

I won't go bragging about my understanding of Cold War policy, but I'll admit to not understanding you very much.

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
I think you are overly optimistic about what would have happened in the long run had Nixon been charged.

Perhaps I am, but 30+ years later, and the same people are doing the same things, so, as I said, the best the pardon did was to a neutral effect.
A neutral effect in terms of achieving campaign finance reform, yes. But that wasn't Ford's goal. His goal was national healing, and I think it's a little facile to dismiss that as short-term concern.
Except that the nation heals. It healed after Teapot Dome, it healed after "Remember the Maine!", it healed after the Civil War, and I contend that Watergate was a hell of a lot less injurious than that.
I guess you had to be there.
Really? Watergate was more injurious than the Civil War?

I'm not saying it wasn't a very difficult period, Sara. I am saying that the nation wasn't in danger, particularly compared with other "national nightmares" that have existed.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
I have to tell you, your responses are becoming less and less substantive. People are calling Ford decent and I show that he supported an illegal invasion that resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. You tell me I don't understand why people think him decent. That's really not much of a response, when you think about it.


Hey, the news is full of testimonies from people who knew him and who called him "decent". He was a good guy by most accounts. Go read them, listen to the TV. By your definition of decent, no American president was decent. Fine. I'm not going to change your mind.

quote:
Then you point out that the US had a vicious Cold War policy. I point out that yes, it was, and in fact I've pointed to one example of how vicious it could be. And the president behind such a policy, I say, couldn't be decent. You accuse me of not understanding Cold War policy.

Fine. Your opinion. See above.

quote:
I won't go bragging about my understanding of Cold War policy, but I'll admit to not understanding you very much.
If I'm talking about an era you don't understand, I suppose you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about. Guess it's all my fault. Fine.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Sara, people can reach a different conclusion about the same era as you; it doesn't mean they don't understand it. It means that they reach a different conclusion, and that is all.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Really? Watergate was more injurious than the Civil War?


Of course not. But what's your point? What does degree of injury have to do with anything?

quote:
I'm not saying it wasn't a very difficult period, Sara. I am saying that the nation wasn't in danger, particularly compared with other "national nightmares" that have existed.
Who said the nation was in danger? And why the need to compare it to other nightmares? The nation was exhausted. Exhausted from Vietnam. Exhausted from Watergate. Exhausted from the divisions and betrayals. Pardoning Nixon ended Watergate. The country needed Watergate to be over. I didn't think so at the time, but Ford was right.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
decent cold waffles

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Sara, people can reach a different conclusion about the same era as you; it doesn't mean they don't understand it. It means that they reach a different conclusion, and that is all.

Yeah, everyone's opinion is equal, I know, I know. Cardinal rule of snopes. Right. I forgot.

Would you accept my opinion of living in KY as being as valid as yours?

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
So why did you guess I "just had to be there," Sara?

I don't doubt the country needed Watergate to be over; I contend that the solution Ford offered, ultimately, didn't solve anything.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Sara, people can reach a different conclusion about the same era as you; it doesn't mean they don't understand it. It means that they reach a different conclusion, and that is all.

Yeah, everyone's opinion is equal, I know, I know. Cardinal rule of snopes. Right. I forgot.

Would you accept my opinion of living in KY as being as valid as yours?

The part I don't get is that I never disagreed with your simple assessment of cold war policy. So I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I don't know anything about US policy during that period.

I merely pointed out the immorality of Ford's Indonesian policy. How does that amount to a misunderstanding of cold war policy?

Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Sara, people can reach a different conclusion about the same era as you; it doesn't mean they don't understand it. It means that they reach a different conclusion, and that is all.

Yeah, everyone's opinion is equal, I know, I know. Cardinal rule of snopes. Right. I forgot.

*sigh*
*yawn*

This again? Can anybody disagree with you without being accused of not possessing the vast fount of knowledge that you do, Sara? Knowledge about this time is not your exclusive domain.

quote:
Would you accept my opinion of living in KY as being as valid as yours?
I have never lived in KY, Sara.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Freshman
We Three Blings


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Freshman   Author's Homepage   E-mail Freshman   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Sarah: do yout think Ford's support of the East Timor invasion was right?

--------------------
"High-Five!" - Borat

Posts: 1056 | From: Racine, WI | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
So why did you guess I "just had to be there," Sara?

I don't doubt the country needed Watergate to be over; I contend that the solution Ford offered, ultimately, didn't solve anything.

I said it because you clearly don't understand that pardoning Nixon ended Watergate. Therefore Ford's solution did exactly what it was suppose to do: it ended Watergate. It ended that distraction. Anything else it was suppose to "solve" is revisionist history.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
I have never lived in KY, Sara.

Kentucky, Tennessee, same same. [Big Grin]


Ok, I'll do it myself. [fish]

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Sara, people can reach a different conclusion about the same era as you; it doesn't mean they don't understand it. It means that they reach a different conclusion, and that is all.

Yeah, everyone's opinion is equal, I know, I know. Cardinal rule of snopes. Right. I forgot.

*sigh*
*yawn*

This again? Can anybody disagree with you without being accused of not possessing the vast fount of knowledge that you do, Sara? Knowledge about this time is not your exclusive domain.


That whine is tired. Really tired.

Can anyone know more about something than you without being insulted?

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
The part I don't get is that I never disagreed with your simple assessment of cold war policy. So I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I don't know anything about US policy during that period.


From your posts.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Steve
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sara Claus at home:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
The part I don't get is that I never disagreed with your simple assessment of cold war policy. So I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I don't know anything about US policy during that period.


From your posts.

Could you be specific?
Posts: 1699 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sara at home   E-mail Sara at home   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Freshman:
Sarah: do yout think Ford's support of the East Timor invasion was right?

Frankly, it doesn't matter what I think. That was the way the USA operated from the end of WWII until the USSR collapsed. Our country supported many evil, brutal dictators simply to keep them from turning to the communist block for that kind of support. That's just the way it was.

--------------------
Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
  This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2